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	<title>Comments on: Another climate change conference: going by train is not necessarily the answer.</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/08/27/another-climate-change-conference-going-by-train-is-not-necessarily-the-answer/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/08/27/another-climate-change-conference-going-by-train-is-not-necessarily-the-answer/</link>
	<description>Conservative Party Member of Parliament for Wokingham</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 15:49:01 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Keith Garrett</title>
		<link>http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/08/27/another-climate-change-conference-going-by-train-is-not-necessarily-the-answer/#comment-5372</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith Garrett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Aug 2007 11:15:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/08/27/another-climate-change-conference-going-by-train-is-not-necessarily-the-answer/#comment-5372</guid>
		<description>Trains are generally more efficient than cars (certainly than cars with only one or two people in). They reduce congestion and help our economy (can you imagine how London would function without fast trains coming into the centre?). As to their emissions, old trains might be not as good but modern diesel/electric and electric trains are very efficient. Also with electric trains you can start to move to renewables and or nuclear power, reducing the emissions and giving us energy independence from other countries. We can't rely on petrol/diesel from other countries for very much longer. Britain has a lot of renewable energy. Let's use it and stop shipping all our money overseas.

Reply: Modern trains that travel well loaded with passengers are clearly more fuel efficient, which is why the Competitiveness Report I have just launched looks at ways of adapting the technology to maximise use of the track with services people are likely to want to use, employing new more fuel efficient engines. However, we must also examine end to end journeys to see the true emissions picture, and look at the many trains operating at off peak times between less popualr destinations, where they are increasing the emissions problem. Electric trains burn much more gas and coal generated energy than renewable power, so we have to account for that pollution as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Trains are generally more efficient than cars (certainly than cars with only one or two people in). They reduce congestion and help our economy (can you imagine how London would function without fast trains coming into the centre?). As to their emissions, old trains might be not as good but modern diesel/electric and electric trains are very efficient. Also with electric trains you can start to move to renewables and or nuclear power, reducing the emissions and giving us energy independence from other countries. We can&#8217;t rely on petrol/diesel from other countries for very much longer. Britain has a lot of renewable energy. Let&#8217;s use it and stop shipping all our money overseas.</p>
<p>Reply: Modern trains that travel well loaded with passengers are clearly more fuel efficient, which is why the Competitiveness Report I have just launched looks at ways of adapting the technology to maximise use of the track with services people are likely to want to use, employing new more fuel efficient engines. However, we must also examine end to end journeys to see the true emissions picture, and look at the many trains operating at off peak times between less popualr destinations, where they are increasing the emissions problem. Electric trains burn much more gas and coal generated energy than renewable power, so we have to account for that pollution as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Rhodes</title>
		<link>http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/08/27/another-climate-change-conference-going-by-train-is-not-necessarily-the-answer/#comment-5309</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Rhodes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Aug 2007 04:05:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/08/27/another-climate-change-conference-going-by-train-is-not-necessarily-the-answer/#comment-5309</guid>
		<description>On the subject of audits, will the EU be publishing (and offsetting?) it's carbon footprint for the conference? Perhaps not.

I can't help thinking that trains are an outdated form of transport, which absorb a tremendous amount of capital to upkeep and perhaps are not as green as people think. Why not tear up the railways and replace them with something more appropriate for our age. Perhaps super buses that could connect to the existing road network and / or covered through-ways that could be used by eco-friendly two wheel transport.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the subject of audits, will the EU be publishing (and offsetting?) it&#8217;s carbon footprint for the conference? Perhaps not.</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t help thinking that trains are an outdated form of transport, which absorb a tremendous amount of capital to upkeep and perhaps are not as green as people think. Why not tear up the railways and replace them with something more appropriate for our age. Perhaps super buses that could connect to the existing road network and / or covered through-ways that could be used by eco-friendly two wheel transport.</p>
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		<title>By: Francis irving</title>
		<link>http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/08/27/another-climate-change-conference-going-by-train-is-not-necessarily-the-answer/#comment-5301</link>
		<dc:creator>Francis irving</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Aug 2007 22:57:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/08/27/another-climate-change-conference-going-by-train-is-not-necessarily-the-answer/#comment-5301</guid>
		<description>Although often ineffectual and always undemocratic, the EU in this case is doing at least one useful thing - forcing use of efficient light bulbs which are better for the environment and the pocket (http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=380442007). I agree that it is not enough.

Your description of people's perceptions is interesting and worrying. You can go back to the peer reviewed science, and try and get to the bottom of what is really being predicted (Mark Lynas's "Six Degrees" book gives some references, and a summary). But it's hard, as climatology is hard.

I'm sufficiently worried that I think it is worth acting with leadership to reduce carbon emissions anyway. I want to keep our society and our lifestyle. I care about our country. The stakes are high, and it doesn't seem worth the risk.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Although often ineffectual and always undemocratic, the EU in this case is doing at least one useful thing - forcing use of efficient light bulbs which are better for the environment and the pocket (http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=380442007). I agree that it is not enough.</p>
<p>Your description of people&#8217;s perceptions is interesting and worrying. You can go back to the peer reviewed science, and try and get to the bottom of what is really being predicted (Mark Lynas&#8217;s &#8220;Six Degrees&#8221; book gives some references, and a summary). But it&#8217;s hard, as climatology is hard.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sufficiently worried that I think it is worth acting with leadership to reduce carbon emissions anyway. I want to keep our society and our lifestyle. I care about our country. The stakes are high, and it doesn&#8217;t seem worth the risk.</p>
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		<title>By: Ed</title>
		<link>http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/08/27/another-climate-change-conference-going-by-train-is-not-necessarily-the-answer/#comment-5300</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Aug 2007 22:26:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/08/27/another-climate-change-conference-going-by-train-is-not-necessarily-the-answer/#comment-5300</guid>
		<description>Included in that "audit" of different modes of transport needs to be included the energy used to make the new cars - because it's all very well for a new car to be more efficient but what about the energy used to make it instead of using the old less efficient car?

It's not a trivial matter because Europe is churning out and importing vast numbers of new cars to replace perfectly good and repairable existing ones.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Included in that &#8220;audit&#8221; of different modes of transport needs to be included the energy used to make the new cars - because it&#8217;s all very well for a new car to be more efficient but what about the energy used to make it instead of using the old less efficient car?</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not a trivial matter because Europe is churning out and importing vast numbers of new cars to replace perfectly good and repairable existing ones.</p>
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		<title>By: Steven_L</title>
		<link>http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/08/27/another-climate-change-conference-going-by-train-is-not-necessarily-the-answer/#comment-5295</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven_L</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Aug 2007 20:53:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/08/27/another-climate-change-conference-going-by-train-is-not-necessarily-the-answer/#comment-5295</guid>
		<description>This might sound selfish, but the way things are going makes me think more and more along the lines of buying a fast, gas-guzzling petrol car - because this might be the last opportuntiy I ever have to.

Oil prices are rising, tax on driving a fast car is headed in no direction but North.  The revolution in diesel technology (largely thanks to German manufacturers) and the likelihood of hybrid technology achieving economies of scale against this back drop makes me think - "Hey, you can get a nice German V8 car now for </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This might sound selfish, but the way things are going makes me think more and more along the lines of buying a fast, gas-guzzling petrol car - because this might be the last opportuntiy I ever have to.</p>
<p>Oil prices are rising, tax on driving a fast car is headed in no direction but North.  The revolution in diesel technology (largely thanks to German manufacturers) and the likelihood of hybrid technology achieving economies of scale against this back drop makes me think - &#8220;Hey, you can get a nice German V8 car now for</p>
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		<title>By: jorgen</title>
		<link>http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/08/27/another-climate-change-conference-going-by-train-is-not-necessarily-the-answer/#comment-5290</link>
		<dc:creator>jorgen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Aug 2007 17:22:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/08/27/another-climate-change-conference-going-by-train-is-not-necessarily-the-answer/#comment-5290</guid>
		<description>You are of course right about the EU!

But make a green audit? Why not sit at home watching "The Great Global Warming Swindle" and stop worrying about green issues. They should also study astronomy: Mars has *proven* global warming (unlike Earth) - so global warming is apparently a normal part of the life-cycle of a planet.

Reply: We need a proper green audit to help guide people to lower energy costs in an era of increasing energy prices - and also to prevent green folly by doing things that are expensive and inconvenient which also fail to cut energy usage in the way intended.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are of course right about the EU!</p>
<p>But make a green audit? Why not sit at home watching &#8220;The Great Global Warming Swindle&#8221; and stop worrying about green issues. They should also study astronomy: Mars has *proven* global warming (unlike Earth) - so global warming is apparently a normal part of the life-cycle of a planet.</p>
<p>Reply: We need a proper green audit to help guide people to lower energy costs in an era of increasing energy prices - and also to prevent green folly by doing things that are expensive and inconvenient which also fail to cut energy usage in the way intended.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Harrison</title>
		<link>http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/08/27/another-climate-change-conference-going-by-train-is-not-necessarily-the-answer/#comment-5286</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Harrison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Aug 2007 15:10:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/08/27/another-climate-change-conference-going-by-train-is-not-necessarily-the-answer/#comment-5286</guid>
		<description>I'd like to see a proper green audit of wind power generation as well. The audit needs to include the full life cycle cost, including building, transportation, maintenance and decommissioning of both the windmills and the extensions to the grid required for remote locations. Such an audit would also have to include how much electricity is actually be delivered to the grid rather than how much is generated at the windmill in perfect conditions. Finally the cost of having standby supply also needs to be factored in.

The figures I've seen for Germany and California suggest that windmills actually have a larger carbon footprint than modern coal power stations. If this is true, then all we are doing is paying taxes to give subsidies to large German and Danish corporations in order to degrade our environment!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d like to see a proper green audit of wind power generation as well. The audit needs to include the full life cycle cost, including building, transportation, maintenance and decommissioning of both the windmills and the extensions to the grid required for remote locations. Such an audit would also have to include how much electricity is actually be delivered to the grid rather than how much is generated at the windmill in perfect conditions. Finally the cost of having standby supply also needs to be factored in.</p>
<p>The figures I&#8217;ve seen for Germany and California suggest that windmills actually have a larger carbon footprint than modern coal power stations. If this is true, then all we are doing is paying taxes to give subsidies to large German and Danish corporations in order to degrade our environment!</p>
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