Comments on: Loads of money - background to the Spending Review http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/10/08/loads-of-money-background-to-the-spending-review/ Conservative Party Member of Parliament for Wokingham Wed, 19 Nov 2008 13:49:24 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 By: Victor Cowen http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/10/08/loads-of-money-background-to-the-spending-review/#comment-7747 Victor Cowen Mon, 08 Oct 2007 21:12:06 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/10/08/loads-of-money-background-to-the-spending-review/#comment-7747 John, you kindly posted my remarks at 11.44 on 8th. I have no wish to sound pedantic as I note that that you did not see fit to comment but I see this issue as absoutely vital. The readiness for the party to take on the quangos and fiefdoms created by Labour with their cronies in well paid and often pensioned jobs. This is what Margaret Thatcher did and it was was politically costly and bloody at times but those totally unneccessary bodies must just be closed down in many cases and reduced drastically in others - this will be no easy fight often with your own friends involved and unions and possible strikes etc. but there will have to be a Thatcher bloodbath markII if this waste is to be taken seriously in every possible sphere. IF you are honest about it the public will be with you, mess around at the fringes and you will be seen as two-faced. Take it from me. Reply: I did not comment but I agree we need to tackle these public sector excesses,a nd have often written about it. John, you kindly posted my remarks at 11.44 on 8th. I have no wish to sound pedantic as I note that that you did not see fit to comment but I see this issue as absoutely vital.
The readiness for the party to take on the quangos and fiefdoms created by Labour with their cronies in well paid and often pensioned jobs.
This is what Margaret Thatcher did and it was was politically costly and bloody at times but those totally unneccessary bodies must just be closed down in many cases and reduced drastically in others - this will be no easy fight often with your own friends involved and unions and possible strikes etc. but there will have to be a Thatcher bloodbath markII if this waste is to be taken seriously in every possible sphere.
IF you are honest about it the public will be with you, mess around at the fringes and you will be seen as two-faced. Take it from me.

Reply: I did not comment but I agree we need to tackle these public sector excesses,a nd have often written about it.

]]> By: Derek http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/10/08/loads-of-money-background-to-the-spending-review/#comment-7732 Derek Mon, 08 Oct 2007 19:16:46 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/10/08/loads-of-money-background-to-the-spending-review/#comment-7732 I have never understood the argument that incontinent spending of public money somehow delivers better services and is a laudable attribute for a chancellor. By that token we might as well have had Viv Nicholson at the Treasury for the last ten years. I don't have any particularly great ideas, but we seem to need some killer facts to jolt the electorate out of its current New Labour induced stupor. Something like all the money spent on quangos is enough to subscribe the whole country to BUPA (I don't know if any study like this has ever been carried out). I do have real concerns that at some point in the future people will wake up to just how much of the money they earn supports central and local government incompetence. I'm worried that Labour have discredited the government's ability to manage the delivery of services and increasingly people will pay private firms to do so. If it gets to the point where people are paying for their own education, health-care, rubbish collection and more, they may question whether they actually require government for the delivery of any service at all. Despite being a conservative and a businessman I don't believe that private firms can deliver all services, only where a value versus service compact is satisfied and there's no inherent threat to national security in doing so. Therefore against my anti-statist tendencies; I believe action needs to be taken to improve the value and standard of service government delivers before the majority demand a more pay-as-you-go approach and threaten to withhold taxes (as some pensioners have already at local level, which could gain further momentum). This would leave the government greatly emasculated and society much less cohesive as a result. I'm hopeful that the next Conservative government (GB is now mortally wounded, I personally doubt he can recover) will resist this continued largesse with public money and ignore the squawking of certain newpapers and broadcasting corporations. Unfortunately the incumbents in government appear to buy the weekly shop with their own preferred currency of 'hospital beds', instead of pounds sterling, which has conveniently closed down debate. I have never understood the argument that incontinent spending of public money somehow delivers better services and is a laudable attribute for a chancellor. By that token we might as well have had Viv Nicholson at the Treasury for the last ten years.

I don’t have any particularly great ideas, but we seem to need some killer facts to jolt the electorate out of its current New Labour induced stupor. Something like all the money spent on quangos is enough to subscribe the whole country to BUPA (I don’t know if any study like this has ever been carried out).

I do have real concerns that at some point in the future people will wake up to just how much of the money they earn supports central and local government incompetence. I’m worried that Labour have discredited the government’s ability to manage the delivery of services and increasingly people will pay private firms to do so. If it gets to the point where people are paying for their own education, health-care, rubbish collection and more, they may question whether they actually require government for the delivery of any service at all.

Despite being a conservative and a businessman I don’t believe that private firms can deliver all services, only where a value versus service compact is satisfied and there’s no inherent threat to national security in doing so.

Therefore against my anti-statist tendencies; I believe action needs to be taken to improve the value and standard of service government delivers before the majority demand a more pay-as-you-go approach and threaten to withhold taxes (as some pensioners have already at local level, which could gain further momentum). This would leave the government greatly emasculated and society much less cohesive as a result.

I’m hopeful that the next Conservative government (GB is now mortally wounded, I personally doubt he can recover) will resist this continued largesse with public money and ignore the squawking of certain newpapers and broadcasting corporations. Unfortunately the incumbents in government appear to buy the weekly shop with their own preferred currency of ‘hospital beds’, instead of pounds sterling, which has conveniently closed down debate.

]]> By: Cliff http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/10/08/loads-of-money-background-to-the-spending-review/#comment-7722 Cliff Mon, 08 Oct 2007 16:12:04 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/10/08/loads-of-money-background-to-the-spending-review/#comment-7722 It seems to me that Mr Brown is modelling his public sector on the Starlinist model of the former USSR. Overmanning in administration posts, too many pointless monitoring process, too many frontline professionals weighed down with endless paper work to provide more statistics and we all know about statistics, the list is endless. I have heard that in some northern towns, more than half of the population work for the civil service. Is this true John? Mrs Thatcher spent much of her time as PM cutting down on quangos and waste and as usual, the Labour government have reintroduced them and more. Perhaps we need a campaign by our party to high light just how much these quangos etc are costing each and everyone of us each year. Combine these figures with the continued cost of being part of the EUSSR ( It seems to me that Mr Brown is modelling his public sector on the Starlinist model of the former USSR.
Overmanning in administration posts, too many pointless monitoring process, too many frontline professionals weighed down with endless paper work to provide more statistics and we all know about statistics, the list is endless. I have heard that in some northern towns, more than half of the population work for the civil service. Is this true John?

Mrs Thatcher spent much of her time as PM cutting down on quangos and waste and as usual, the Labour government have reintroduced them and more.
Perhaps we need a campaign by our party to high light just how much these quangos etc are costing each and everyone of us each year. Combine these figures with the continued cost of being part of the EUSSR (

]]> By: Mike H http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/10/08/loads-of-money-background-to-the-spending-review/#comment-7719 Mike H Mon, 08 Oct 2007 15:15:28 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/10/08/loads-of-money-background-to-the-spending-review/#comment-7719 What a refreshing view on an old subject. Unfortunately, the whole 'new money' thing just helps to support the misconception that it isn't ever possible to deliver improvements without additional funds. It's not helped by the inevitable arguments between the parties as to whether or not the money in question is really 'new' or not. As you say, what is needed is an injection of the sort of thinking that's standard throughout any successful business in the private sector. Like 'Letters from a Tory' I find it difficult to understand why, when re-elected, a Conservative Chancellor will stick to Labour's spending plans. We're effectively saying we'll continue to chuck money onto the bonfire even when we're in office! In my view, all that does is further reinforce the message that it's the *sum* of money that matters, as opposed to *how* it's used. I can understand that there's a need to provide financial stability during the transition period between governments, but is there no other way to achieve that without undermining our own message? Shouldn't the focus be on assurances about maintaining or improving the 'deliverables', rather than just keeping the cash supply lines running? Reply: Yes of course - guarantee service levels not cost. What a refreshing view on an old subject.

Unfortunately, the whole ‘new money’ thing just helps to support the misconception that it isn’t ever possible to deliver improvements without additional funds. It’s not helped by the inevitable arguments between the parties as to whether or not the money in question is really ‘new’ or not. As you say, what is needed is an injection of the sort of thinking that’s standard throughout any successful business in the private sector.

Like ‘Letters from a Tory’ I find it difficult to understand why, when re-elected, a Conservative Chancellor will stick to Labour’s spending plans. We’re effectively saying we’ll continue to chuck money onto the bonfire even when we’re in office!

In my view, all that does is further reinforce the message that it’s the *sum* of money that matters, as opposed to *how* it’s used. I can understand that there’s a need to provide financial stability during the transition period between governments, but is there no other way to achieve that without undermining our own message? Shouldn’t the focus be on assurances about maintaining or improving the ‘deliverables’, rather than just keeping the cash supply lines running?

Reply: Yes of course - guarantee service levels not cost.

]]> By: Victor Cowen http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/10/08/loads-of-money-background-to-the-spending-review/#comment-7704 Victor Cowen Mon, 08 Oct 2007 11:44:12 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/10/08/loads-of-money-background-to-the-spending-review/#comment-7704 The reversal of this way of thinking is going to be the biggest problem the Tories will have to face. (Turning round and ocean going liner) but worse still as lots of big and small fiefdoms have been created these last 10 years and breaking into that pattern and way of thought is a massive task as it's not just financial it's 'personal' too. I hope the party is ready for it and fully realises what they will be up against. The reversal of this way of thinking is going to be the biggest problem the Tories will have to face. (Turning round and ocean going liner) but worse still as lots of big and small fiefdoms have been created these last 10 years and breaking into that pattern and way of thought is a massive task as it’s not just financial it’s ‘personal’ too.
I hope the party is ready for it and fully realises what they will be up against.

]]> By: Neil Craig http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/10/08/loads-of-money-background-to-the-spending-review/#comment-7697 Neil Craig Mon, 08 Oct 2007 10:29:57 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/10/08/loads-of-money-background-to-the-spending-review/#comment-7697 One option to make NHS spending something that could be sensibly debated would be to hypothecate (ok ringfence) NHS spending. According to the last figures it was One option to make NHS spending something that could be sensibly debated would be to hypothecate (ok ringfence) NHS spending. According to the last figures it was

]]> By: gordon-bennett http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/10/08/loads-of-money-background-to-the-spending-review/#comment-7694 gordon-bennett Mon, 08 Oct 2007 09:41:16 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/10/08/loads-of-money-background-to-the-spending-review/#comment-7694 Unfortunately, the media (mainly the bbc) are four square behind nulabour and rig every discussion to undermine any sensible suggestions from Conservatives, as I think you know to your cost. This means we have to keep our head down until we gain power. Unfortunately, the media (mainly the bbc) are four square behind nulabour and rig every discussion to undermine any sensible suggestions from Conservatives, as I think you know to your cost. This means we have to keep our head down until we gain power.

]]> By: Tony Makara http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/10/08/loads-of-money-background-to-the-spending-review/#comment-7685 Tony Makara Mon, 08 Oct 2007 09:03:37 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/10/08/loads-of-money-background-to-the-spending-review/#comment-7685 Fine article exposing Labour's economic sophistry. I always feel I learn something when I come to this website. Labour ministers would do well to pay a daily visit to the diary too. Reply: Thanks. The lack of value is so great now do hope someone is reading and listening from the government. After all they are going to need some savings to pay for the Inheritance tax cuts we have made so popular! Fine article exposing Labour’s economic sophistry. I always feel I learn something when I come to this website. Labour ministers would do well to pay a daily visit to the diary too.

Reply: Thanks. The lack of value is so great now do hope someone is reading and listening from the government. After all they are going to need some savings to pay for the Inheritance tax cuts we have made so popular!

]]> By: Brian Tomkinson http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/10/08/loads-of-money-background-to-the-spending-review/#comment-7682 Brian Tomkinson Mon, 08 Oct 2007 08:39:10 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/10/08/loads-of-money-background-to-the-spending-review/#comment-7682 What happened to all the efficiency savings recommended to Brown in the Gershon Report? There seems never to be any meaningful follow up and evaluation of these "initiatives" in government - its easier spending other people's money! Given the events of recent days and the success of the Conservatives' tax announcements at the conference, now must be a good time to drive home your arguments for insisting on value for the tax payers' money. You know what Labour's retaliation will be but they are on shifting sand and your case, if correctly presented, is unarguable. What happened to all the efficiency savings recommended to Brown in the Gershon Report? There seems never to be any meaningful follow up and evaluation of these “initiatives” in government - its easier spending other people’s money! Given the events of recent days and the success of the Conservatives’ tax announcements at the conference, now must be a good time to drive home your arguments for insisting on value for the tax payers’ money. You know what Labour’s retaliation will be but they are on shifting sand and your case, if correctly presented, is unarguable.

]]> By: Letters From A Tory http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/10/08/loads-of-money-background-to-the-spending-review/#comment-7675 Letters From A Tory Mon, 08 Oct 2007 06:48:12 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/10/08/loads-of-money-background-to-the-spending-review/#comment-7675 I find it incredible that the Conservatives are going to stick to Gordon Brown's spending plans if/when they return to government. Surely if we scrap government targets, which David Cameron has already committed himself to, we can cut bureaucracy and save huge amounts of money - thereby reducing public spending and hopefully reducing our borrowing requirement. http://lettersfromatory.wordpress.com I find it incredible that the Conservatives are going to stick to Gordon Brown’s spending plans if/when they return to government. Surely if we scrap government targets, which David Cameron has already committed himself to, we can cut bureaucracy and save huge amounts of money - thereby reducing public spending and hopefully reducing our borrowing requirement.

http://lettersfromatory.wordpress.com

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