Comments on: Death of the A level? http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/10/24/death-of-the-a-level/ Conservative Party Member of Parliament for Wokingham Sat, 11 Oct 2008 09:20:55 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 By: Derek http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/10/24/death-of-the-a-level/#comment-9268 Derek Wed, 24 Oct 2007 15:32:09 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/10/24/death-of-the-a-level/#comment-9268 I agree with your analysis of the exam system. I recently looked at some exam questions for A-level maths and physics, both of which I studied. It wasn't that the material or syllabus was particularly dumbed down but rather that the questions were much simpler and more straightforward. It was very easy to ascertain you'd arrived at the correct answer as it came to a conveniently round number. Multiple choice is always going to be more suited to our state-run exam factories although, it can be made trickier by deducting marks for wrong answers. This works very well in recruitment processes. However, I can't imagine a schools minister announcing on the news that half of all pupils have attained negative marks. I agree with your analysis of the exam system. I recently looked at some exam questions for A-level maths and physics, both of which I studied. It wasn’t that the material or syllabus was particularly dumbed down but rather that the questions were much simpler and more straightforward. It was very easy to ascertain you’d arrived at the correct answer as it came to a conveniently round number.

Multiple choice is always going to be more suited to our state-run exam factories although, it can be made trickier by deducting marks for wrong answers. This works very well in recruitment processes. However, I can’t imagine a schools minister announcing on the news that half of all pupils have attained negative marks.

]]> By: John Gartside http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/10/24/death-of-the-a-level/#comment-9255 John Gartside Wed, 24 Oct 2007 14:03:20 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/10/24/death-of-the-a-level/#comment-9255 I think the 'A' level always has been flawed. They have always been too narrow. Full specialisation should start during undergraduate period. The issue of global warming illustrates the point; there are far too many people getting their oar in who do not understand the 'scientific' method. If they did, I would not suggest they would become authoritative on the issue, just that they might approach topics on which they have scant knowledge or understanding, with a degree more circumspection and humility; they might also be able to start counting the non sequiturs in the arguments put forth, and to ask intelligent questions instead of simply trying to shout each other down. Scientists should be able to express themselves well in one or more languages and humanities graduates would need to understand that some things are not matters of argument, but matters of fact and scientific logic or possibly indeterminate. In principle, university entrance examinations are a matter for universities to set, but we also need to look at the examination systems (and therefore education systems) adopted by our competitors who are creating more patents than we are (not including the US which hoovers up others' talent):- http://www.wipo.int/ipstats/en/statistics/patents/patent_report_2007.html#P694_40454 An examination of the 'Country of Origin' chart will demonstrate that we are not only performing very poorly against equivalent countries, but are being put to shame by the relative performance of much smaller countries. This is also the key to the UK problem with 'added value'. Patents are an investment in future prosperity and economic success. I think the ‘A’ level always has been flawed. They have always been too narrow. Full specialisation should start during undergraduate period. The issue of global warming illustrates the point; there are far too many people getting their oar in who do not understand the ’scientific’ method. If they did, I would not suggest they would become authoritative on the issue, just that they might approach topics on which they have scant knowledge or understanding, with a degree more circumspection and humility; they might also be able to start counting the non sequiturs in the arguments put forth, and to ask intelligent questions instead of simply trying to shout each other down.

Scientists should be able to express themselves well in one or more languages and humanities graduates would need to understand that some things are not matters of argument, but matters of fact and scientific logic or possibly indeterminate.

In principle, university entrance examinations are a matter for universities to set, but we also need to look at the examination systems (and therefore education systems) adopted by our competitors who are creating more patents than we are (not including the US which hoovers up others’ talent):-

http://www.wipo.int/ipstats/en/statistics/patents/patent_report_2007.html#P694_40454

An examination of the ‘Country of Origin’ chart will demonstrate that we are not only performing very poorly against equivalent countries, but are being put to shame by the relative performance of much smaller countries. This is also the key to the UK problem with ‘added value’. Patents are an investment in future prosperity and economic success.

]]> By: Cliff http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/10/24/death-of-the-a-level/#comment-9251 Cliff Wed, 24 Oct 2007 12:38:23 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/10/24/death-of-the-a-level/#comment-9251 Our education system does seem to be in a sad state. I believe it started when we went towards comprehensive education. The current government has completed the downfall of our once great education system with too much political interference. Too much micro management with distrust by government of the professionals involved. Gordon, stop interfering and let professionals get on with the job. Nanny does not always know best!! The A levels were a great indication of ones ability, now they appear to be handed out like Reader's Digest prize draw winner's notifications. I agree, test at eleven to see how the student has progressed and to give an indication to the secondary school of the student's ability. It was called the eleven-plus in the glory days of our education system. Encourage people to think for themselves and to have an opinion and allow them to express that opinion. (Even about religious slaughter John!!) Challenge the more academic students....We did that with grammar schools Provide vocational courses....We did that with Technical schools. Educate less able students with a mixture of vocational and basic literacy and innumeracy courses....We did that with Secondary Modern schools. Errmmm Seems like the answers to our current problems are in our past....That is the real past, not the politically correct new history that our government promotes in our schools where we in Great Britain are always in the wrong. The concept of equality in all areas of our life and our society is killing our society. People are different in many ways....some brighter than others....some more creative than others....some more stronger than others.....We need to move away from the one size fits all mentality that has overtaken common sense in government policy on education....as well as many other areas!! Reply: The reference to religious slaughter is a mild reproof to me for not posting a previous contribution. I will set out why I occasionally do not publish an item in a new posting shortly. Our education system does seem to be in a sad state. I believe it started when we went towards comprehensive education.
The current government has completed the downfall of our once great education system with too much political interference. Too much micro management with distrust by government of the professionals involved. Gordon, stop interfering and let professionals get on with the job. Nanny does not always know best!!
The A levels were a great indication of ones ability, now they appear to be handed out like Reader’s Digest prize draw winner’s notifications.
I agree, test at eleven to see how the student has progressed and to give an indication to the secondary school of the student’s ability. It was called the eleven-plus in the glory days of our education system. Encourage people to think for themselves and to have an opinion and allow them to express that opinion. (Even about religious slaughter John!!)
Challenge the more academic students….We did that with grammar schools
Provide vocational courses….We did that with Technical schools.
Educate less able students with a mixture of vocational and basic literacy and innumeracy courses….We did that with Secondary Modern schools.
Errmmm Seems like the answers to our current problems are in our past….That is the real past, not the politically correct new history that our government promotes in our schools where we in Great Britain are always in the wrong.

The concept of equality in all areas of our life and our society is killing our society. People are different in many ways….some brighter than others….some more creative than others….some more stronger than others…..We need to move away from the one size fits all mentality that has overtaken common sense in government policy on education….as well as many other areas!!

Reply: The reference to religious slaughter is a mild reproof to me for not posting a previous contribution. I will set out why I occasionally do not publish an item in a new posting shortly.

]]> By: Tony Makara http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/10/24/death-of-the-a-level/#comment-9239 Tony Makara Wed, 24 Oct 2007 09:18:57 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/10/24/death-of-the-a-level/#comment-9239 I remember when doing my A levels that one of the lecturers told us that we must focus totally on the 'Ability to argue' as that was what examiners looked for and that even counted for more than content. So even though that was many years ago now it is still unsettling to think that students were marked up based on how frequently they used linguistic turnstiles. There was one instance of a girl I knew who got an A in political history yet when talking to this same girl post-exam I discovered that she believed the USSR had been on the side of the allies as far back as 1939! So clearly even back then it was possible to pass exams without a complete knowledge of the subject. I remember when doing my A levels that one of the lecturers told us that we must focus totally on the ‘Ability to argue’ as that was what examiners looked for and that even counted for more than content. So even though that was many years ago now it is still unsettling to think that students were marked up based on how frequently they used linguistic turnstiles. There was one instance of a girl I knew who got an A in political history yet when talking to this same girl post-exam I discovered that she believed the USSR had been on the side of the allies as far back as 1939! So clearly even back then it was possible to pass exams without a complete knowledge of the subject.

]]> By: Letters From A Tory http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/10/24/death-of-the-a-level/#comment-9231 Letters From A Tory Wed, 24 Oct 2007 07:01:45 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/10/24/death-of-the-a-level/#comment-9231 Sorry John but I disagree with you on this. As a former teacher, the A-star grade at A-level is just papering over the cracks. The profit-making exam boards set the questions and make the syllabuses easier, and therefore have no incentive to increase the difficulty level for the students. Introducing the A-star will not stop grade inflation or force exam boards to make the exams harder. We need to get the government out of education and get an independent board of experts (including university professors) to set the exam questions, decide on syllabus material and ensure that standards remain high. The government will never let exams get harder because they are so hell-bent on making it look like they're doing a good job. http://lettersfromatory.wordpress.com/2007/10/24/another-balls-up/ Reply: I would be happier to see more independence if there is a way of entrenching it. I agree that somehow more stretching questions and marking standards are needed to differentiate between the higher achievers. Sorry John but I disagree with you on this. As a former teacher, the A-star grade at A-level is just papering over the cracks. The profit-making exam boards set the questions and make the syllabuses easier, and therefore have no incentive to increase the difficulty level for the students. Introducing the A-star will not stop grade inflation or force exam boards to make the exams harder.

We need to get the government out of education and get an independent board of experts (including university professors) to set the exam questions, decide on syllabus material and ensure that standards remain high. The government will never let exams get harder because they are so hell-bent on making it look like they’re doing a good job.

http://lettersfromatory.wordpress.com/2007/10/24/another-balls-up/

Reply: I would be happier to see more independence if there is a way of entrenching it. I agree that somehow more stretching questions and marking standards are needed to differentiate between the higher achievers.

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