Comments on: The treatment of Scotland and England http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/10/27/the-treatment-of-scotland-and-england/ Conservative Party Member of Parliament for Wokingham Sat, 11 Oct 2008 19:01:05 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 By: William Wallace http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/10/27/the-treatment-of-scotland-and-england/#comment-23682 William Wallace Wed, 27 Aug 2008 12:44:32 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/10/27/the-treatment-of-scotland-and-england/#comment-23682 A fair point that needs to be raised is, does it matter that 95% of the North Sea Oil (or whatever percentage it is) is in what the Scots consider Scottish territory? If devolution comes about simply by greed, you guys will be shot down and destroyed because no bloody way is the North Sea oil going to a bunch of greedy Scots who destroyed the Union of the greatest 'nation' ever. England with 90% of the population will bully you for the oil anyway. And with Englands foreign policy essentially being the British one, the USA will support England, basically destroying this national identity that Scotland desires :S? Reply:I don't see it like that. If either England or Scotland voted to be independent there would need to be a negotiation about the offshore borders. MOst of the oil tax is collected in England from English buyers of oil based products. That would stay the same. A fair point that needs to be raised is, does it matter that 95% of the North Sea Oil (or whatever percentage it is) is in what the Scots consider Scottish territory?

If devolution comes about simply by greed, you guys will be shot down and destroyed because no bloody way is the North Sea oil going to a bunch of greedy Scots who destroyed the Union of the greatest ‘nation’ ever. England with 90% of the population will bully you for the oil anyway.

And with Englands foreign policy essentially being the British one, the USA will support England, basically destroying this national identity that Scotland desires :S?

Reply:I don’t see it like that. If either England or Scotland voted to be independent there would need to be a negotiation about the offshore borders. MOst of the oil tax is collected in England from English buyers of oil based products. That would stay the same.

]]> By: Grant http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/10/27/the-treatment-of-scotland-and-england/#comment-18168 Grant Thu, 13 Mar 2008 22:04:17 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/10/27/the-treatment-of-scotland-and-england/#comment-18168 John, the figures produced by the University of Aberdeen do take account of the location of oil fields off the east coast of Scotland. In fact they use the principle of equidistance (the median line charting the respective coasts of England and Scotland) and still arrive at 95% of oil fields in "Scottish Waters". I suggest you read the excellent piece by Professor Alex Kemp - Sclumberger Professor of Petroleum Economics at Aberdeen University. And as above PRT and North Sea Corporation Tax have absolutely nothing to do with the English consumer or taxpayer John, the figures produced by the University of Aberdeen do take account of the location of oil fields off the east coast of Scotland. In fact they use the principle of equidistance (the median line charting the respective coasts of England and Scotland) and still arrive at 95% of oil fields in “Scottish Waters”. I suggest you read the excellent piece by Professor Alex Kemp - Sclumberger Professor of Petroleum Economics at Aberdeen University.

And as above PRT and North Sea Corporation Tax have absolutely nothing to do with the English consumer or taxpayer

]]> By: Richard Thomson http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/10/27/the-treatment-of-scotland-and-england/#comment-10461 Richard Thomson Wed, 31 Oct 2007 15:58:18 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/10/27/the-treatment-of-scotland-and-england/#comment-10461 With all due respect, John, even if there were a reference in the Stern Report to maritime boundaries or the relative split in tax receipts arising from the various parts of the UK - impressive as his CV might be - it would still have been well outwith both his remit and expertise to have done so. The 'curious figures' used by the SNP are, I presume, a reference to the party's treatment of North Sea Corporation Tax and Petroleum Revenue Tax in its forecasts - both of which are taxes levied on the basis of where the resource is extracted, and not the location of the final consumer. It was Prof. Alex Kemp, a noted oil economist from Aberdeen University, who put the estimate of these tax receipts as falling at 95% from the Scottish sector of the North Sea, so the SNP estimate is hardly without foundation. Unlike, dare I say it, your earlier assertion of Scottish advantage when it comes to UK public spending... Reply: Sorry - had the wrong figures in mind when I wrote the last Reply. The SNP figures do not take account of the geographical location of the oil, which is not 95% offshore Scotland depending on how you draw the boundaries. You also might as well argue that as so much property based tax comes from London London should declare independence and pocket that cash. With all due respect, John, even if there were a reference in the Stern Report to maritime boundaries or the relative split in tax receipts arising from the various parts of the UK - impressive as his CV might be - it would still have been well outwith both his remit and expertise to have done so.

The ‘curious figures’ used by the SNP are, I presume, a reference to the party’s treatment of North Sea Corporation Tax and Petroleum Revenue Tax in its forecasts - both of which are taxes levied on the basis of where the resource is extracted, and not the location of the final consumer.

It was Prof. Alex Kemp, a noted oil economist from Aberdeen University, who put the estimate of these tax receipts as falling at 95% from the Scottish sector of the North Sea, so the SNP estimate is hardly without foundation. Unlike, dare I say it, your earlier assertion of Scottish advantage when it comes to UK public spending…

Reply: Sorry - had the wrong figures in mind when I wrote the last Reply. The SNP figures do not take account of the geographical location of the oil, which is not 95% offshore Scotland depending on how you draw the boundaries. You also might as well argue that as so much property based tax comes from London London should declare independence and pocket that cash.

]]> By: British Patriot http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/10/27/the-treatment-of-scotland-and-england/#comment-10370 British Patriot Tue, 30 Oct 2007 21:13:36 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/10/27/the-treatment-of-scotland-and-england/#comment-10370 For me the Bigger demon is the EU, if Breaking the union defeats the EU I'm all for it, we can always link up with the Scots and Welsh later.... Whatever it takes, the EU is a Monster that Must be destroyed. The Scots and Welsh must surely see that Devolution is a lemon, what use is Devolution if 80% of their laws come from Brussels anyway, the Only way they will have true Independance if that is what they really want is to help us defeat the EU and if that costs the Union (hopefullly only temporarily) then that is a Price worth paying. For me the Bigger demon is the EU, if Breaking the union defeats the EU I’m all for it, we can always link up with the Scots and Welsh later….
Whatever it takes, the EU is a Monster that Must be destroyed.

The Scots and Welsh must surely see that Devolution is a lemon, what use is Devolution if 80% of their laws come from Brussels anyway,
the Only way they will have true Independance if that is what they really want is to help us defeat the EU and if that costs the Union (hopefullly only temporarily) then that is a Price worth paying.

]]> By: Richard Thomson http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/10/27/the-treatment-of-scotland-and-england/#comment-10358 Richard Thomson Tue, 30 Oct 2007 17:49:50 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/10/27/the-treatment-of-scotland-and-england/#comment-10358 John - for goodness sakes, give it a rest and quit whining about the Scots, will you? Scotland get a higher IDENTIFIABLE spend than England as a whole, because it costs more to deliver public services in Scotland - caused mainly by us having 1/12 of the UK population spread over 1/3 of the UK landmass. The London 'region', despite being a densely populated city, gets an identical level of identifiable spending to Scotland. And that's before you take into account the John - for goodness sakes, give it a rest and quit whining about the Scots, will you?

Scotland get a higher IDENTIFIABLE spend than England as a whole, because it costs more to deliver public services in Scotland - caused mainly by us having 1/12 of the UK population spread over 1/3 of the UK landmass. The London ‘region’, despite being a densely populated city, gets an identical level of identifiable spending to Scotland. And that’s before you take into account the

]]> By: Ted Harvey http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/10/27/the-treatment-of-scotland-and-england/#comment-10344 Ted Harvey Tue, 30 Oct 2007 12:47:08 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/10/27/the-treatment-of-scotland-and-england/#comment-10344 Cliff you said: "On the face of it there does seem to be a Scottish mafia Cliff you said:

“On the face of it there does seem to be a Scottish mafia

]]> By: Scottish Roundup » Blog Archive http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/10/27/the-treatment-of-scotland-and-england/#comment-10244 Scottish Roundup » Blog Archive Mon, 29 Oct 2007 11:19:39 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/10/27/the-treatment-of-scotland-and-england/#comment-10244 [...] tense relationship between Scotland and England, and this was explored during the week by John Redwood (another surprisingly good blog, even if you don’t share his politics) and Beau Bo D’Or, [...] [...] tense relationship between Scotland and England, and this was explored during the week by John Redwood (another surprisingly good blog, even if you don’t share his politics) and Beau Bo D’Or, [...]

]]> By: Letters From A Tory http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/10/27/the-treatment-of-scotland-and-england/#comment-10215 Letters From A Tory Mon, 29 Oct 2007 08:32:12 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/10/27/the-treatment-of-scotland-and-england/#comment-10215 I'm very glad that finally the debate has begun in the media, having been nothing more than some frustrated mutterings in Parliament from time to time. Labour could do themselves some serious damage if they try to keep things the way they are in the face of public pressure. http://lettersfromatory.wordpress.com/2007/10/29/let-them-have-their-oil-mr-cameron/ I’m very glad that finally the debate has begun in the media, having been nothing more than some frustrated mutterings in Parliament from time to time. Labour could do themselves some serious damage if they try to keep things the way they are in the face of public pressure.

http://lettersfromatory.wordpress.com/2007/10/29/let-them-have-their-oil-mr-cameron/

]]> By: Jibshape.Com » The treatment of Scotland and England http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/10/27/the-treatment-of-scotland-and-england/#comment-10100 Jibshape.Com » The treatment of Scotland and England Sun, 28 Oct 2007 19:47:15 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/10/27/the-treatment-of-scotland-and-england/#comment-10100 [...] S James wrote an interesting post today on The treatment of Scotland and EnglandHere’s a quick [...] [...] S James wrote an interesting post today on The treatment of Scotland and EnglandHere’s a quick [...]

]]> By: Former Tory voter (at present ?) http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/10/27/the-treatment-of-scotland-and-england/#comment-9900 Former Tory voter (at present ?) Sun, 28 Oct 2007 00:20:18 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/10/27/the-treatment-of-scotland-and-england/#comment-9900 ....."we want an answer to the problems created by unfair and one sided devolution". The answer is very simple Mr Redwood. its called an English Parliament, and I suspect that you are slowly coming to realize it. Shout loud and long enough where it matters (parliament)and you will have election victory assured in England. Damn the Union. …..”we want an answer to the problems created by unfair and one sided devolution”.
The answer is very simple Mr Redwood. its called an English Parliament, and I suspect that you are slowly coming to realize it.
Shout loud and long enough where it matters (parliament)and you will have election victory assured in England.
Damn the Union.

]]> By: Anoneumouse http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/10/27/the-treatment-of-scotland-and-england/#comment-9866 Anoneumouse Sat, 27 Oct 2007 19:41:26 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/10/27/the-treatment-of-scotland-and-england/#comment-9866 We are constantly being told by Europhile Politicians that we have to solemnly honour our treaty obligations with regard to the European Union. The UK Government draws up on its LEGAL BASIS from the Act of the Union. (a treaty) Article 4 of the Act of Union states: "That all the subjects of the United Kingdom of Great Britain shall from and after the Union We are constantly being told by Europhile Politicians that we have to solemnly honour our treaty obligations with regard to the European Union.

The UK Government draws up on its LEGAL BASIS from the Act of the Union. (a treaty) Article 4 of the Act of Union states: “That all the subjects of the United Kingdom of Great Britain shall from and after the Union

]]> By: Cliff http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/10/27/the-treatment-of-scotland-and-england/#comment-9814 Cliff Sat, 27 Oct 2007 15:28:31 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/10/27/the-treatment-of-scotland-and-england/#comment-9814 On the face of it there does seem to be a "Scottish mafia" running both the Westminster parliament and England. Labour, it seems, take a great deal of delight in bashing England and the English at every opportunity. Is this by design I wonder? Do they wish to see the break-up of the UK? Is this classic "Divide and Rule" tactics in operation? Will the break-up of the UK make it easier for the EU to take over our countries in the form of a large socialist super state? The type of Nationalism we see displayed by the SNP has in effect stirred the English into action. Sadly though, we see anti-Scottish sentiment expressed often by the English in the street and via blogs and newspaper letters pages. We also see the Scots reacting to this expression through similar means. We have in fact become two very separate and divided nations. I believe the SNP have jumped on this and have in effect thrown petrol onto the fire they have created.....as you say, very cleverly from their point of view. I see signs of similar resentment against the Welsh as well, especially in regards to NHS prescription charges. I can see why the SNP leadership appear to have encouraged this hostility from the English, I feel that any proposal to break-up the UK would need to be approved by all parties concerned including the English and as there are more English than all the other "Local nationalities" put together, their vote is crucial. It seems the English are being provoked into saying to the Scots, yeah go your own way. I believe the SNP are misleading their fellow countrymen regarding the nett worth and income of "Scottish" oil. I have read that the income from the oil falls short of the funding they receive through the Barnet formula. Any shortfall would need to be made up for by Scottish taxation, and given the size of their population; this would be a sizeable burden on individual Scots. I would also wonder what would happen when the oil runs out, which of course it will. Some commentators have likened it to a divorce, I think this sums it up fairly well however, with any divorce it is always the financial split and the sharing of the assets that causes the most pain and suffering. I would hate to see similar things happen in the UK that happened during the break-up of the old Yugoslavia along nationalistic lines. I read today that Northern Ireland may be sitting on substantial gold deposits. Will we see the rise of a group of Northern Irish nationalists along the same lines as the SNP with their eyes on the gold rather than the black gold? Could we see a rise in the efforts of the Eire nationalists to get the six counties back? Could get interesting. On the face of it there does seem to be a “Scottish mafia” running both the Westminster parliament and England.
Labour, it seems, take a great deal of delight in bashing England and the English at every opportunity. Is this by design I wonder? Do they wish to see the break-up of the UK? Is this classic “Divide and Rule” tactics in operation? Will the break-up of the UK make it easier for the EU to take over our countries in the form of a large socialist super state?

The type of Nationalism we see displayed by the SNP has in effect stirred the English into action. Sadly though, we see anti-Scottish sentiment expressed often by the English in the street and via blogs and newspaper letters pages. We also see the Scots reacting to this expression through similar means. We have in fact become two very separate and divided nations. I believe the SNP have jumped on this and have in effect thrown petrol onto the fire they have created…..as you say, very cleverly from their point of view. I see signs of similar resentment against the Welsh as well, especially in regards to NHS prescription charges.

I can see why the SNP leadership appear to have encouraged this hostility from the English, I feel that any proposal to break-up the UK would need to be approved by all parties concerned including the English and as there are more English than all the other “Local nationalities” put together, their vote is crucial. It seems the English are being provoked into saying to the Scots, yeah go your own way.

I believe the SNP are misleading their fellow countrymen regarding the nett worth and income of “Scottish” oil. I have read that the income from the oil falls short of the funding they receive through the Barnet formula. Any shortfall would need to be made up for by Scottish taxation, and given the size of their population; this would be a sizeable burden on individual Scots.
I would also wonder what would happen when the oil runs out, which of course it will. Some commentators have likened it to a divorce, I think this sums it up fairly well however, with any divorce it is always the financial split and the sharing of the assets that causes the most pain and suffering.
I would hate to see similar things happen in the UK that happened during the break-up of the old Yugoslavia along nationalistic lines.

I read today that Northern Ireland may be sitting on substantial gold deposits. Will we see the rise of a group of Northern Irish nationalists along the same lines as the SNP with their eyes on the gold rather than the black gold? Could we see a rise in the efforts of the Eire nationalists to get the six counties back? Could get interesting.

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