Nov 05 2007
Gunpowder plot
On November 5th we remember that terrorism in the name of religion is not a new problem.
We should also remember how this plot was foiled. It was not intercepted through the issue of ID cards. The police or army did not spot the plotters carrying huge barrels of gunpowder into a cellar. It was not prevented by a cordon of oak or iron - today’s concrete and steel - around the Palace of Westminster.
The murderers were prevented from killing the Parliament and government of James I by intelligence picking up a family tip off.
Surely we could learn something from this successful work by the Security services? They drew on the very successful experiences of the Ellizabethan service,who foiled many plots to kill the Queen.
John Redwood has been the Member of Parliament for Wokingham since 1987. First attending Kent College, Canterbury, he graduated from Magdalen College...
However, this would require common sense on the part of the security services, something which seems to have been eroded away in modern times.
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Your point on human intelligence is totally valid.
But how long will England labour under Tudor propaganda about what the ‘Elizabethan service’ was setting out to achieve? Of larger concern than saving queen and country from threats, it’s aim was to eradicate England’s Catholicism, which was no threat at all, as evidenced by hundreds of years of history.
“the very successful experiences of the Ellizabethan service , who foiled many plots to kill the Queen”
Led by William Cecil, the ’service’ employed sadists like Richard Topcliffe to hound men and women of peace–like St Edmund Campion and St Margaret Clitherow–to be tortured and executed against all norms of justice.
What kind of intelligence service is this?
If 5th November should make us think of anything, it is of the England’s blessed Catholic heritage: how successive governments executed/imprisoned/fined tens of thousands of its own citizens merely for their faith; and how many of these reacted in non-violent, selfless and even heroic ways. Thank God the ’service’ was not successful in its real objective.
The bomb plot was/is sensational because it was otherwise unheard of.
Sorry for digressing…but England will fade completely if we refuse to acknowledge our heritage.
Reply: I am a strong supporter of relgious toleration and hold no brief to praise either the torture and murder of Catholics under Elizabeth or the murder and torture of Protestants under Mary. However, the point remains that the Elizabethan secret service was efficient - within the standards of the day - at detecting death plots against the state. Today we have phone intercepts, surveillance cameras, computer hacking and other means so we do not need the thumbscrews.
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Oh for a Walsingham or a Cecil to head up MI5 or the Met! Somehow, if either of these were found to have targeted and killed the wrong person, I cannot believe they would be blaming institutional failure and ducking personal responsibility.
Incidentally, try this for an exercise, substitute the Met Police’s defence for your own, if for example, your wife catches you with a lap dancer or some such…
…..It wasn’t my fault darling, it was the corporate entertainment that put me in the position, and anyway, the lap dancer’s actions contributed to the event, so I’m not really responsible and lessons have been learned and I have apologised and I’ve fined myself some money…..
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Thank you for your reply. And sorry for my gaffs…Stuart not Tudor and Robert Cecil not William.
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I sometimes think the current effort to “secure our safety” by means of ever-more extensive top-down and centralised databasing effort is the ultimate expression of the state planners’ mindset. That’s the bad news. The worse news is that because of its structure it will not, cannot, succeed at its task. Which is why your observation about how Guy Fawkes was detected is so important - we will be protected from those amongst us who wish us harm only by the natural efforts of others in the same societies, communities, or circles, who don’t. So if we want security, we’d better work out a way of developing those societies/communities/circles.
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