Comments on: Referendum time?

By: David Eyles

David Eyles — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 12:48:50 +0000

I think what Ken Clarke means is that Norway, Iceland and Switzerland all trade with the EU, but are not part of it. Their trade with the EU is sometimes governed by EU regulations, in the same way as our trade with the US has to comply with their rules. I think this causes some irritation amonst Norwegian farmers for instance, but in general, the Norwegians stayed out because they saw what happened to our fishing industry - and very sensible they were too.

Just for the sake of interest, the following figures for GDP per capita, in US dollars, are from the 2006 Index of Economic Freedom:

UK: 26,391
France: 22,723
Germany: 23,002
Italy: 18,932
Ireland: 28,762
The Netherlands: 23,319
Denmark: 30,828

Average per capita income: 24,851

And the figures for the three non-EU countries mentioned above:

Iceland: 32,758
Norway: 39,259
Switzerland: 34, 369

Average: 35,462

I realise that you can do anything with statistics, especially as I have chosen only seven of the largest players in the EU, but the differences between my selection and those European countries outside the EU seem to me to be significant.

I think the moral is that trade is good and political control is bad.

By: Rose

Rose — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 11:30:35 +0000

Stuart, perhaps Norway and Iceland have the status vis a vis the EU that France has within NATO - i.e. allowed to dine a la carte, at very reduced, not increased, rates, and with no obligation - as we should be doing ourselves had we any sense. We should remind ourselves, too, of the case of Greenland. Norway has prospered hugely outside the EU, despite being only 4 millions, and Iceland is doing well enough now to attract black propaganda against her on Channel 4. (Jersey would no doubt sympathise.) That is the problem with going it alone successfully - you attract envy and hostility from the wolf who has lost his tail.

By: niconoclast

niconoclast — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 08:24:55 +0000

I am still trying to work out why a referendum on UK membership of the EU is a bad thing and why we are villifying the liberals for proposing it. One thing the last 24 hours have surely proven is that we cannot trust Parliament to get us out of this mess.

The Conservatives are constantly fighting a rear guard action on the EU,debating the layout of the deckchairs on the EU Titanic whilst it is sinking fast.Are they merely embarrassed that the liberals have exposed their precarious and untenable position on the EU?

I want a vote on UK membership on the EU and I can assure you that a vast majority of Conservative voters do too.

By: Lib Dems in a flap! « Curly’s Corner Shop, the blog!

Lib Dems in a flap! « Curly’s Corner Shop, the blog! — Wed, 05 Mar 2008 22:15:11 +0000

[...] Lord what fools these mortals be! If you kept your word and said what you mean you wouldnâ€™t get into these difficulties, Mr Clegg. Does he really think these contortions are the way to help restore faith in politicians? - John Redwood [...]

By: mikestallard

mikestallard — Wed, 05 Mar 2008 20:06:44 +0000

And please can you explain what that means to Mr Cameron too?

Did you see the wretched Mr Clegg on Newsnight last night? Hilarious. He really looked like a naughty schoolboy in the head’s office for a beating. Jeremy Paxman delighted in every lovely moment.
And so did I!

By: Puncheon

Puncheon — Wed, 05 Mar 2008 19:53:51 +0000

With reference to Rosemary’s message above can I say that I tried to send an e-mail to my MP urging him to honour his Party’s promise to hold a referendum,but it was bounced back as undeliverable. This confirms my suspicion that Labour is a totally dictatorial party who do not wish to hear any voices of dissent. I come from three generations of Labour voters but I’ll never vote for them again, they have been taken over by the media/marxist/fascists.

By: Stuart Fairney

Stuart Fairney — Wed, 05 Mar 2008 17:30:55 +0000

According to Ken Clarke today in Parliamant, countries like Norway and Iceland are “associated” to the EU but are not members. Can you explain exactly what this means?

By: Rosemary

Rosemary — Wed, 05 Mar 2008 11:37:23 +0000

It would be a good idea if we all copied and pasted this article to our respective MPS (to avoid the Brown IT control freakery) and asked them what they intend to do on our behalf.

By: Rose

Rose — Wed, 05 Mar 2008 11:01:24 +0000

And he says he wants to lead a complete revolution in which power is restored to real people!

By: Brian Tomkinson

Brian Tomkinson — Wed, 05 Mar 2008 09:34:10 +0000

Clegg has shown that when it comes to a choice between the democratic rights of the British people and the endless transfer of power to the unelected EU he will choose to support his friends in Brussels every time. He thinks that by abstaining he will avoid the electoral damage which must surely follow this betrayal of the British people. This just shows his lack of judgement and deceitfulness. There is a possibility that if the Liberal Democrats (shouldn’t they be made to delete the second word of their name?)
voted with you and principled Labour MPs that the election pledge you all made could be honoured. By abstaining he actually puts himself in the spotlight. If there were a referendum then all those, like Clegg, who want this country’s powers of self-determination to be further subsumed by the political class of the EU would have the opportunity to put their case to the people. He chooses not to do this for fear of losing the argument. Why should anyone trust any Party or MP who votes against the referendum, which they promised in their 2005 election manifesto, but which can now be seen as a dishonest ploy to get elected?

By: Bert Rustle

Bert Rustle — Wed, 05 Mar 2008 09:13:43 +0000

Why are so many UK politicians happy to divest themselves of even more powers of policy construction to the EU, whilst retaining responsibility for implementation? How long before the Electorate realise that the relation of Westminster to Brussels is beginning to resemble that of the Scottish and Welsh assemblies to Westminster?

If UK politicians are not in politics to exercise power, then why are they in it? It appears to me that Peter Oborne’s analysis The Triumph of the Political Class gives a plausible explanation.

In my opinion Nick Clegg’s performance will be rather sobering for LD supporters. Nick Clegg belittled the similarity of the Treaty versus the Constitution, which is falsifiable. Indeed, since there are virtually no difference between the two, let’s just call it the Constitreaty! This is what Andrew Ayres has dubbed it over at his site Constitreaty.com — a site where you can auto-compare the two documents side-by-side — word-by-word.

By: Freeborn John

Freeborn John — Wed, 05 Mar 2008 08:35:28 +0000

Perhaps LibDem MPs should read the case for a referendum direct from their glorious leader here:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2003/oct/15/politicalcolumnists.eu