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	<title>Comments on: The police and public sector pay</title>
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	<link>http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/05/21/the-police-and-public-sector-pay/</link>
	<description>Conservative Party Member of Parliament for Wokingham</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 02:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: mikestallard</title>
		<link>http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/05/21/the-police-and-public-sector-pay/#comment-20755</link>
		<dc:creator>mikestallard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 19:52:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1091#comment-20755</guid>
		<description>John - since you revamped the website, have you, too, noticed how much it has improved? A much better class of contribution!

Anyway, two little points to add:
1. Notice how, at this very moment when the construction industry is laying off workers, when Estate Agents are going out of business (who would have foreseen that!) and when, in my own little area, there are a lot of unsold houses, at this very point in time, the Regional Development Plan has been unveiled with huge eco-towns all over the Region. Out of touch or what? (I suppose it is preparing for all the unwanted, and so often illegal, immigrants. Also, of course, for all those one parent families).

2. The Labour party is now Â£21,000,000 in debt and Lord Levy has gone. So, let me ask, who do you think is bankrolling the party now? And, of course, the EU is right in there with its disastrous economic recipe for all its workers.....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John - since you revamped the website, have you, too, noticed how much it has improved? A much better class of contribution!</p>
<p>Anyway, two little points to add:<br />
1. Notice how, at this very moment when the construction industry is laying off workers, when Estate Agents are going out of business (who would have foreseen that!) and when, in my own little area, there are a lot of unsold houses, at this very point in time, the Regional Development Plan has been unveiled with huge eco-towns all over the Region. Out of touch or what? (I suppose it is preparing for all the unwanted, and so often illegal, immigrants. Also, of course, for all those one parent families).</p>
<p>2. The Labour party is now Â£21,000,000 in debt and Lord Levy has gone. So, let me ask, who do you think is bankrolling the party now? And, of course, the EU is right in there with its disastrous economic recipe for all its workers&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen</title>
		<link>http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/05/21/the-police-and-public-sector-pay/#comment-20727</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 18:49:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1091#comment-20727</guid>
		<description>One of the essentials for pulling the UK economy out of its many troubles is surely to tackle the problems produced by so-called home 'ownership'. Property values are wildly over-inflated, which is not good either for individuals or for business. Reckless lending secured against these inflated values is what has been funding consumer spending in this country for far too long now, at grave danger, as we have now found out, to the country's long-term economic health. The banks (who have been borrowing themselves against the value of their books) and the individual borrowers are like people who have been repeatedly using one credit card to pay off another, and finally the day of reckoning is here.

A competent government would accept that some pain is going to be necessary, and that property prices need to fall.  It should allow reckless lenders such as Northern Rock to go to the wall, concentrating its efforts on protecting the interests of savers as far as that is possible.

None of this would be popular with the electorate. Sometimes though governments of any colour need to take deeply unpopular decisions, and it is their willingness to do so that determines their fitness to hold office.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the essentials for pulling the UK economy out of its many troubles is surely to tackle the problems produced by so-called home &#8216;ownership&#8217;. Property values are wildly over-inflated, which is not good either for individuals or for business. Reckless lending secured against these inflated values is what has been funding consumer spending in this country for far too long now, at grave danger, as we have now found out, to the country&#8217;s long-term economic health. The banks (who have been borrowing themselves against the value of their books) and the individual borrowers are like people who have been repeatedly using one credit card to pay off another, and finally the day of reckoning is here.</p>
<p>A competent government would accept that some pain is going to be necessary, and that property prices need to fall.  It should allow reckless lenders such as Northern Rock to go to the wall, concentrating its efforts on protecting the interests of savers as far as that is possible.</p>
<p>None of this would be popular with the electorate. Sometimes though governments of any colour need to take deeply unpopular decisions, and it is their willingness to do so that determines their fitness to hold office.</p>
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		<title>By: Wayne</title>
		<link>http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/05/21/the-police-and-public-sector-pay/#comment-20723</link>
		<dc:creator>Wayne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 16:58:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1091#comment-20723</guid>
		<description>I have a number of suggestions to deal with slimming down the public sector wage bill but I won't go into them here. I might do so on my own blog in the next few days (or I might not).

My first suggestion is why not allow private companies to start their own police force and prison? We would then get the efficiency of the private sector into the public sector.

If my local police force is providing an inadequate service why shouldn't I be able to ask their competition to deal with crime that is committed against me? At the moment the police and prisons have a monopoly why shouldn't there be competition in the sector?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a number of suggestions to deal with slimming down the public sector wage bill but I won&#8217;t go into them here. I might do so on my own blog in the next few days (or I might not).</p>
<p>My first suggestion is why not allow private companies to start their own police force and prison? We would then get the efficiency of the private sector into the public sector.</p>
<p>If my local police force is providing an inadequate service why shouldn&#8217;t I be able to ask their competition to deal with crime that is committed against me? At the moment the police and prisons have a monopoly why shouldn&#8217;t there be competition in the sector?</p>
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		<title>By: Neil Craig</title>
		<link>http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/05/21/the-police-and-public-sector-pay/#comment-20715</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil Craig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 10:41:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1091#comment-20715</guid>
		<description>I agree with you about cutting the civil service by not replacing retirees. This would be a relatively painless way of cutting since none of those not getting jobs would already have them, while the money liberated would help in the creation of several times more new non-government jobs. Moreover, under Parkinson's law it is inevitable that the work required &#38; government spending needed to do it will increase, or decrease, in line with the hands available. In the medium term this is a key to cutting expenditure.

You are also correct in noting Brown's need to satisfy the unions. A high &#38; growing proportion of union membership is in government employment &#38; whether the opportunities for school leavers would be better in the private sector of a growing economy or the public sector of a stagnant one the unions NEED to keep up public employment. 

This then is a quite unusual situation in British politics where it is almost impossible for one party to steal the policies of the other. Labour cannot deliver a major cut in public employment, or indeed in their benefits such as inflation proof pensions &#38; job security irrespective of competence. If, as I believe, these paying for these benefits is strongly resented by most of the population it is therefore ground on which the Tories can happily fight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with you about cutting the civil service by not replacing retirees. This would be a relatively painless way of cutting since none of those not getting jobs would already have them, while the money liberated would help in the creation of several times more new non-government jobs. Moreover, under Parkinson&#8217;s law it is inevitable that the work required &amp; government spending needed to do it will increase, or decrease, in line with the hands available. In the medium term this is a key to cutting expenditure.</p>
<p>You are also correct in noting Brown&#8217;s need to satisfy the unions. A high &amp; growing proportion of union membership is in government employment &amp; whether the opportunities for school leavers would be better in the private sector of a growing economy or the public sector of a stagnant one the unions NEED to keep up public employment. </p>
<p>This then is a quite unusual situation in British politics where it is almost impossible for one party to steal the policies of the other. Labour cannot deliver a major cut in public employment, or indeed in their benefits such as inflation proof pensions &amp; job security irrespective of competence. If, as I believe, these paying for these benefits is strongly resented by most of the population it is therefore ground on which the Tories can happily fight.</p>
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		<title>By: steve-roberts</title>
		<link>http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/05/21/the-police-and-public-sector-pay/#comment-20714</link>
		<dc:creator>steve-roberts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 10:13:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1091#comment-20714</guid>
		<description>Sorry, John, but a bit of natural wastage and a bit of efficiency savings will not do the trick. What is necessary is for whole departments and functions to be abolished (remember the Price Commission). This is win-win: it reduces the financial burden on the productive economy, as well as the regulatory / administrative burden.

Just slimming back the functions of government to where they were in 1997 would be a great start.

Reply:My advice today is to this PM for now - of course a sensible governemnt will want to remove functions and quangos</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, John, but a bit of natural wastage and a bit of efficiency savings will not do the trick. What is necessary is for whole departments and functions to be abolished (remember the Price Commission). This is win-win: it reduces the financial burden on the productive economy, as well as the regulatory / administrative burden.</p>
<p>Just slimming back the functions of government to where they were in 1997 would be a great start.</p>
<p>Reply:My advice today is to this PM for now - of course a sensible governemnt will want to remove functions and quangos</p>
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		<title>By: Acorn</title>
		<link>http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/05/21/the-police-and-public-sector-pay/#comment-20712</link>
		<dc:creator>Acorn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 09:30:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1091#comment-20712</guid>
		<description>"Well, if I were going there, I wouldn't start from here.  I'd go to Ballymollee and start from there." (Old ethnic joke).

Fine words John but where is our Ballymollee?  There is no way we are going to get â€œthereâ€ unless we get back to â€œZero Based Budgetingâ€ across the whole of the public sector, this will be a big task for our next government.  The only way will be to get a solid grip on the short and curlies of HM Treasury.  Fortunately, there is a little band of renegades at the Treasury who are trying to codify who is spending what; gods bless them.  They are called the Whole Government Accounts Team.

http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/documents/public_spending_reporting/whole_of_government_accounts/wga_guidance_index.cfm 

As you introduced the â€œname that taxâ€ game recently, I would like to suggest another game.  This will require Redwood fans to name the top 10 Quangos / NDPBs etc for elimination from the 1300 odd that are available on this spreadsheet.  I suggest we give the â€œBritish Potato Councilâ€ a break, they have been taking some flack lately â€“ yes it is there.  Notice there are now four worksheets on this Excel spreadsheet â€“ tabs at bottom of page. 
 
http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/media/A/0/wga_200708_appendix_3_list_of_bodies_and_cpids_v2.xls 

Unfortunately this spreadsheet does not allow us to link to the money pages, but that may be available to you John, perhaps you could arrange access for us? 

Who knows, if the Citizen Initiative Bill, or even the Citizen Convention Bill accidentally become law we may be able to shut down a few of these spenders.  Meanwhile, I will continue studying PESA 2008; I have made it my mission to understand it by Christmas â€“ sad bugger. 

http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/economic_data_and_tools/finance_spending_statistics/pes_publications/pespub_pesa08.cfm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Well, if I were going there, I wouldn&#8217;t start from here.  I&#8217;d go to Ballymollee and start from there.&#8221; (Old ethnic joke).</p>
<p>Fine words John but where is our Ballymollee?  There is no way we are going to get â€œthereâ€ unless we get back to â€œZero Based Budgetingâ€ across the whole of the public sector, this will be a big task for our next government.  The only way will be to get a solid grip on the short and curlies of HM Treasury.  Fortunately, there is a little band of renegades at the Treasury who are trying to codify who is spending what; gods bless them.  They are called the Whole Government Accounts Team.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/documents/public_spending_reporting/whole_of_government_accounts/wga_guidance_index.cfm" rel="nofollow">http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/documents/public_spending_reporting/whole_of_government_accounts/wga_guidance_index.cfm</a> </p>
<p>As you introduced the â€œname that taxâ€ game recently, I would like to suggest another game.  This will require Redwood fans to name the top 10 Quangos / NDPBs etc for elimination from the 1300 odd that are available on this spreadsheet.  I suggest we give the â€œBritish Potato Councilâ€ a break, they have been taking some flack lately â€“ yes it is there.  Notice there are now four worksheets on this Excel spreadsheet â€“ tabs at bottom of page. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/media/A/0/wga_200708_appendix_3_list_of_bodies_and_cpids_v2.xls" rel="nofollow">http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/media/A/0/wga_200708_appendix_3_list_of_bodies_and_cpids_v2.xls</a> </p>
<p>Unfortunately this spreadsheet does not allow us to link to the money pages, but that may be available to you John, perhaps you could arrange access for us? </p>
<p>Who knows, if the Citizen Initiative Bill, or even the Citizen Convention Bill accidentally become law we may be able to shut down a few of these spenders.  Meanwhile, I will continue studying PESA 2008; I have made it my mission to understand it by Christmas â€“ sad bugger. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/economic_data_and_tools/finance_spending_statistics/pes_publications/pespub_pesa08.cfm" rel="nofollow">http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/economic_data_and_tools/finance_spending_statistics/pes_publications/pespub_pesa08.cfm</a></p>
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		<title>By: Addanc</title>
		<link>http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/05/21/the-police-and-public-sector-pay/#comment-20711</link>
		<dc:creator>Addanc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 09:16:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1091#comment-20711</guid>
		<description>With regard to MP's pay you should have been voting for a PAY CUT!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With regard to MP&#8217;s pay you should have been voting for a PAY CUT!</p>
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