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	<title>Comments on: The government still dithers over tax and spend</title>
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	<link>http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/05/28/the-government-still-dithers-over-tax-and-spend/</link>
	<description>Conservative Party Member of Parliament for Wokingham</description>
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		<title>By: Mark Wadsworth</title>
		<link>http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/05/28/the-government-still-dithers-over-tax-and-spend/#comment-20987</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Wadsworth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 13:24:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1101#comment-20987</guid>
		<description>John, well done for saying this &lt;i&gt;Curbing spending is now very easy, because administrative staff numbers are so high, quangoland is so bloated, and the core public sector is profligate.&lt;/i&gt; But will the next Tory government follow this advice?

Reply: I trust so - David Cameron made a good speech on waste recently</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John, well done for saying this <i>Curbing spending is now very easy, because administrative staff numbers are so high, quangoland is so bloated, and the core public sector is profligate.</i> But will the next Tory government follow this advice?</p>
<p>Reply: I trust so &#8211; David Cameron made a good speech on waste recently</p>
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		<title>By: Donitz</title>
		<link>http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/05/28/the-government-still-dithers-over-tax-and-spend/#comment-20976</link>
		<dc:creator>Donitz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 09:01:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1101#comment-20976</guid>
		<description>I do not believe that the only credible political party are doing enough to make the public aware of how much they are being TAXED by the socialists.

As an example a &quot;Champagne Socialist&quot; friend of mine who is a well respected doctor involved in neuro research within the NHS in Cambridge stated &quot;if we increased income tax by only 1p in the pound we could have the NHS we all deserve&quot;.

I tried to explain to her the economic principle of a taxation bell curve that if taxation is too high the tax take is actually less as more people avoid paying or refuse to work. She seems totally oblivious to the rampant tax and spend of Labour.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do not believe that the only credible political party are doing enough to make the public aware of how much they are being TAXED by the socialists.</p>
<p>As an example a &#8220;Champagne Socialist&#8221; friend of mine who is a well respected doctor involved in neuro research within the NHS in Cambridge stated &#8220;if we increased income tax by only 1p in the pound we could have the NHS we all deserve&#8221;.</p>
<p>I tried to explain to her the economic principle of a taxation bell curve that if taxation is too high the tax take is actually less as more people avoid paying or refuse to work. She seems totally oblivious to the rampant tax and spend of Labour.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/05/28/the-government-still-dithers-over-tax-and-spend/#comment-20971</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 06:19:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1101#comment-20971</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m sure I read somewhere recently that Transport for London employs 16 people on salaries of over Â£150,000 a year. That&#039;s more than the Prime Minister is paid! As a voter and taxpayer I wonder if such largesse extends to other Government bodies and Quangos.

I cannot believe that the Government cannot find a 15% cost saving in it&#039;s budget easily. Even a saving of 10% would amount to over Â£60bn at a time where taxpayers are having to make drastic economies to cover the increased costs of mortgages, fuel and food (and tax!)

But despite a Government clearly incapable of managing it&#039;s own costs, I remain to be convinced that the David Cameron would be strong enough to take a suitably large knife to Government spending. I know that is something Mr Redwood believes in strongly, but he&#039;s not leading the Conservatives. Cameron dances around the subject when he should be making a commitment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m sure I read somewhere recently that Transport for London employs 16 people on salaries of over Â£150,000 a year. That&#8217;s more than the Prime Minister is paid! As a voter and taxpayer I wonder if such largesse extends to other Government bodies and Quangos.</p>
<p>I cannot believe that the Government cannot find a 15% cost saving in it&#8217;s budget easily. Even a saving of 10% would amount to over Â£60bn at a time where taxpayers are having to make drastic economies to cover the increased costs of mortgages, fuel and food (and tax!)</p>
<p>But despite a Government clearly incapable of managing it&#8217;s own costs, I remain to be convinced that the David Cameron would be strong enough to take a suitably large knife to Government spending. I know that is something Mr Redwood believes in strongly, but he&#8217;s not leading the Conservatives. Cameron dances around the subject when he should be making a commitment.</p>
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		<title>By: adam</title>
		<link>http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/05/28/the-government-still-dithers-over-tax-and-spend/#comment-20955</link>
		<dc:creator>adam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 12:30:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1101#comment-20955</guid>
		<description>the government have defended the jump in profits of the oil companies

so much for the peoples representatives.

the oil crisis is fake.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the government have defended the jump in profits of the oil companies</p>
<p>so much for the peoples representatives.</p>
<p>the oil crisis is fake.</p>
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		<title>By: David Jensen</title>
		<link>http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/05/28/the-government-still-dithers-over-tax-and-spend/#comment-20942</link>
		<dc:creator>David Jensen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 21:37:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1101#comment-20942</guid>
		<description>Dear Mr Redwood,

You talk as if your party in government has acted with perfect hindsight.  I have no direct experience of government but have seen a lot.  You guys are all the same.  &quot;this lady&#039;s not for turning!&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Mr Redwood,</p>
<p>You talk as if your party in government has acted with perfect hindsight.  I have no direct experience of government but have seen a lot.  You guys are all the same.  &#8220;this lady&#8217;s not for turning!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: William B.</title>
		<link>http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/05/28/the-government-still-dithers-over-tax-and-spend/#comment-20937</link>
		<dc:creator>William B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 16:09:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1101#comment-20937</guid>
		<description>One aspect of government spending which received little attention but, in my opinion, deserves more is the use of consultants both on matters of policy and matters of administration.  

It is hard to believe that the civil service does not already contain people with appropriate knowledge and experience to assist government on almost any issue without the need for any additional expenditure.  But where additional expertise is needed I see no reason why it must always be paid for at premium rates.  

A lesson can be learned from the way Parliamentary Select Committees gather expert opinions and advice.  When a matter is being considered they invite contributions from the public and receive detailed and highly informative submissions from genuine experts.  Such submissions are made free of charge because people consider their contributions to informed debate that can help improve law-making to be a matter of public service.  

I know not whether this is a practical suggestion, but why not prevent government from hiring any external consultants without the consent of the relevant Commons Select Committee?  It would certainly focus minds on whether there is any genuine need for paid external help.  

In a similar vein we saw recently a most bizarre situation in which companies bidding to take over Northern Rock had their costs paid out of the public purse.  They would not have been bidding at all if they did not see a potential profit and I see no reason why such a normal business cost should be paid by taxpayers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One aspect of government spending which received little attention but, in my opinion, deserves more is the use of consultants both on matters of policy and matters of administration.  </p>
<p>It is hard to believe that the civil service does not already contain people with appropriate knowledge and experience to assist government on almost any issue without the need for any additional expenditure.  But where additional expertise is needed I see no reason why it must always be paid for at premium rates.  </p>
<p>A lesson can be learned from the way Parliamentary Select Committees gather expert opinions and advice.  When a matter is being considered they invite contributions from the public and receive detailed and highly informative submissions from genuine experts.  Such submissions are made free of charge because people consider their contributions to informed debate that can help improve law-making to be a matter of public service.  </p>
<p>I know not whether this is a practical suggestion, but why not prevent government from hiring any external consultants without the consent of the relevant Commons Select Committee?  It would certainly focus minds on whether there is any genuine need for paid external help.  </p>
<p>In a similar vein we saw recently a most bizarre situation in which companies bidding to take over Northern Rock had their costs paid out of the public purse.  They would not have been bidding at all if they did not see a potential profit and I see no reason why such a normal business cost should be paid by taxpayers.</p>
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		<title>By: mike</title>
		<link>http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/05/28/the-government-still-dithers-over-tax-and-spend/#comment-20934</link>
		<dc:creator>mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 15:07:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1101#comment-20934</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m slightly off topic but I was wondering what do you suggest an incoming Conservative government should do about PFI spending.

Presumably, these are legally-watertight contracts which any administration is committed to paying out for over the next 30 years (and assume Mr Brown, as is his wont, went to some trouble to lock a succeeding administration into that commitment).

Not much room for negotiation, then. Horrendous penalties for early termination.

The question is: Are you stuck with this multi-billion pound set of gorillas on the balance sheet?

Reply: Yes, with some of them. They will need review to see how we can manage the risks better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m slightly off topic but I was wondering what do you suggest an incoming Conservative government should do about PFI spending.</p>
<p>Presumably, these are legally-watertight contracts which any administration is committed to paying out for over the next 30 years (and assume Mr Brown, as is his wont, went to some trouble to lock a succeeding administration into that commitment).</p>
<p>Not much room for negotiation, then. Horrendous penalties for early termination.</p>
<p>The question is: Are you stuck with this multi-billion pound set of gorillas on the balance sheet?</p>
<p>Reply: Yes, with some of them. They will need review to see how we can manage the risks better.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/05/28/the-government-still-dithers-over-tax-and-spend/#comment-20933</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 15:05:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1101#comment-20933</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re wasting your time trying to educate the Nasty Party, John. You can talk common sense to them till you&#039;re blue in the face and they still won&#039;t get it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re wasting your time trying to educate the Nasty Party, John. You can talk common sense to them till you&#8217;re blue in the face and they still won&#8217;t get it.</p>
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		<title>By: Yes, fix the economy, but please fix society too &#171; the wilted rose</title>
		<link>http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/05/28/the-government-still-dithers-over-tax-and-spend/#comment-20932</link>
		<dc:creator>Yes, fix the economy, but please fix society too &#171; the wilted rose</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 14:06:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1101#comment-20932</guid>
		<description>[...] John Redwood has, as always, brilliantly analysed the current state of taxation and spending and con....Â  Where better to start than welfare? [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] John Redwood has, as always, brilliantly analysed the current state of taxation and spending and con&#8230;.Â  Where better to start than welfare? [...]</p>
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		<title>By: David Eyles</title>
		<link>http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/05/28/the-government-still-dithers-over-tax-and-spend/#comment-20931</link>
		<dc:creator>David Eyles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 12:57:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1101#comment-20931</guid>
		<description>It is becoming abundantly clear that this government have not just allowed spending to get out of control over the last two budgets - they have no idea how much is being spent and upon what. And that situation has been getting steadily worse over the last ten years.

It&#039;s not just the quangos. Take the MoD for instance. What seems to be happening is that image conscious civil servants, possibly colluding with ministers, are shunting money around so fast that the auditors cannot keep up with it. So no-one can tell if the spending for many projects is being counted once, twice, three times or (most likely) not at all.

They do not know how many civil and/or public servants they employ directly. They do not know how many consultants and outside contractors they employ. They do not know how many committees they have and how much they are remunerated. They are clueless about the present and future pension commitment the taxpayer will have to stand.

When the time comes for a change of government, the Tories will be forced to take a very long time just to get to grips with the scale of the problem. It will take even longer for the taxpayer to recover from the damage that this government has done to the nation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is becoming abundantly clear that this government have not just allowed spending to get out of control over the last two budgets &#8211; they have no idea how much is being spent and upon what. And that situation has been getting steadily worse over the last ten years.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not just the quangos. Take the MoD for instance. What seems to be happening is that image conscious civil servants, possibly colluding with ministers, are shunting money around so fast that the auditors cannot keep up with it. So no-one can tell if the spending for many projects is being counted once, twice, three times or (most likely) not at all.</p>
<p>They do not know how many civil and/or public servants they employ directly. They do not know how many consultants and outside contractors they employ. They do not know how many committees they have and how much they are remunerated. They are clueless about the present and future pension commitment the taxpayer will have to stand.</p>
<p>When the time comes for a change of government, the Tories will be forced to take a very long time just to get to grips with the scale of the problem. It will take even longer for the taxpayer to recover from the damage that this government has done to the nation.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew  Reynolds</title>
		<link>http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/05/28/the-government-still-dithers-over-tax-and-spend/#comment-20930</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew  Reynolds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 11:27:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1101#comment-20930</guid>
		<description>The aim I think must be for the Tories not to match Labour spending plans of 2% p/a real-terms growth in public expenditure ? A waste ridden Â£620 billion a year public sector with a PSBR threatening to hit Â£150 billion p/a is why we are in this economic mess . Annual real terms government spending growth of 1% for at least five or sixe years is essential if we are to avoid anymore to debt interest charges ( a tax on future generations ). Eire has trimmed the fat from its government sector while in Washington President Bush allowed federal spending to get out of hand and his approval ratings rarely exceed 30% while the GOP faces a rout in Congressional elections ( they have lost three by-elections in previously safe Republican districts so far this year ). Eire has prospered as a result of their public spending cuts paving the way for lasting tax reductions . 

In the UK we must as John Redwood suggests get tough with QUANGO&#039;s &amp; civil service budgets and matching the very public spending plans that have done so much harm would be madness . We need more value for money on what is already being spent - taxpayers have suffered enough ! If the Lib Dems want targeted cuts in taxation &amp; public spending then such ideas must be popular - what is George Osborne and for that matter David Cameron waiting for ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The aim I think must be for the Tories not to match Labour spending plans of 2% p/a real-terms growth in public expenditure ? A waste ridden Â£620 billion a year public sector with a PSBR threatening to hit Â£150 billion p/a is why we are in this economic mess . Annual real terms government spending growth of 1% for at least five or sixe years is essential if we are to avoid anymore to debt interest charges ( a tax on future generations ). Eire has trimmed the fat from its government sector while in Washington President Bush allowed federal spending to get out of hand and his approval ratings rarely exceed 30% while the GOP faces a rout in Congressional elections ( they have lost three by-elections in previously safe Republican districts so far this year ). Eire has prospered as a result of their public spending cuts paving the way for lasting tax reductions . </p>
<p>In the UK we must as John Redwood suggests get tough with QUANGO&#8217;s &amp; civil service budgets and matching the very public spending plans that have done so much harm would be madness . We need more value for money on what is already being spent &#8211; taxpayers have suffered enough ! If the Lib Dems want targeted cuts in taxation &amp; public spending then such ideas must be popular &#8211; what is George Osborne and for that matter David Cameron waiting for ?</p>
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		<title>By: Stuart Fairney</title>
		<link>http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/05/28/the-government-still-dithers-over-tax-and-spend/#comment-20924</link>
		<dc:creator>Stuart Fairney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 09:23:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1101#comment-20924</guid>
		<description>The most remarkable thing about this whole mess is that not a single minister yesterday doing the media rounds actually proposed doing the obvious thing, i.e. cutting taxes and spending.

Astonishingly, we heard &quot;sell your car if you don&#039;t like it&quot; from one minister, along with proud boasts that future tax increases had been delayed a few months, and that French tax other things (QED this tax rise is okay??).  Not one of them could actually bring themselves to say &quot;tax cut&quot;

And several of the leftist commentators actually seem to be rejoicing in the destruction of our haulage industry, urging Gordon to &quot;stand firm&quot; on the green agenda.

Well, if that&#039;s the battleground they choose, good luck to them in the next election.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The most remarkable thing about this whole mess is that not a single minister yesterday doing the media rounds actually proposed doing the obvious thing, i.e. cutting taxes and spending.</p>
<p>Astonishingly, we heard &#8220;sell your car if you don&#8217;t like it&#8221; from one minister, along with proud boasts that future tax increases had been delayed a few months, and that French tax other things (QED this tax rise is okay??).  Not one of them could actually bring themselves to say &#8220;tax cut&#8221;</p>
<p>And several of the leftist commentators actually seem to be rejoicing in the destruction of our haulage industry, urging Gordon to &#8220;stand firm&#8221; on the green agenda.</p>
<p>Well, if that&#8217;s the battleground they choose, good luck to them in the next election.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/05/28/the-government-still-dithers-over-tax-and-spend/#comment-20923</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 07:41:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1101#comment-20923</guid>
		<description>Gordon and Alistair are meeting with &quot;leaders of the Oil and Gas industry&quot; to &quot;discuss ways of lowering fuel prices&quot;.

Presumably he&#039;s going to impress them with his grasp of the situation by encouraging them to lower their prices so that they don&#039;t make as much profit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gordon and Alistair are meeting with &#8220;leaders of the Oil and Gas industry&#8221; to &#8220;discuss ways of lowering fuel prices&#8221;.</p>
<p>Presumably he&#8217;s going to impress them with his grasp of the situation by encouraging them to lower their prices so that they don&#8217;t make as much profit.</p>
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		<title>By: DBC Reed</title>
		<link>http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/05/28/the-government-still-dithers-over-tax-and-spend/#comment-20922</link>
		<dc:creator>DBC Reed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 07:06:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1101#comment-20922</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know why there&#039;s this attack on quangos on a Conservative site: they were seen in their heyday  as a way of keeping things at arm&#039;s length from central or local government and bringing in much-needed &quot;private-sector expertise.&quot;
To quote an academic paper &quot;Quangos: what&#039;s in a name&quot; by Greve,Flinders and van Thiel, hardly an incendiary text and available on the Net: &quot;.. emphasis on delegation, disaggregation and contracting out into the private sector led to to the transfer of functions from traditional government bodies to a new range of quasi-autonomous task specific bodies.This allowed the introduction of a variety of new management styles and procedures largely derived from the private sector (Ridley 1996)&quot;
Some of these management styles included ,as far as I can see, croneyism &amp; elitism in selection of members, inflated salaries and over-use of consultants.The latter characteristics passed over into local government: The thinking became:&quot;These people are in charge of multi-million pound budgets; they must be paid the commercial rate for the job; we must attract the best of the limited number of top people&quot; 
The truly conservative thing would be to return these functions to the modestly paid Borough Treasurers etc and their small staffs who administered towns and other responsibilities  from tiny offices with typewriters, simple arithmetic and no computers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know why there&#8217;s this attack on quangos on a Conservative site: they were seen in their heyday  as a way of keeping things at arm&#8217;s length from central or local government and bringing in much-needed &#8220;private-sector expertise.&#8221;<br />
To quote an academic paper &#8220;Quangos: what&#8217;s in a name&#8221; by Greve,Flinders and van Thiel, hardly an incendiary text and available on the Net: &#8220;.. emphasis on delegation, disaggregation and contracting out into the private sector led to to the transfer of functions from traditional government bodies to a new range of quasi-autonomous task specific bodies.This allowed the introduction of a variety of new management styles and procedures largely derived from the private sector (Ridley 1996)&#8221;<br />
Some of these management styles included ,as far as I can see, croneyism &amp; elitism in selection of members, inflated salaries and over-use of consultants.The latter characteristics passed over into local government: The thinking became:&#8221;These people are in charge of multi-million pound budgets; they must be paid the commercial rate for the job; we must attract the best of the limited number of top people&#8221;<br />
The truly conservative thing would be to return these functions to the modestly paid Borough Treasurers etc and their small staffs who administered towns and other responsibilities  from tiny offices with typewriters, simple arithmetic and no computers.</p>
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		<title>By: mikestallard</title>
		<link>http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/05/28/the-government-still-dithers-over-tax-and-spend/#comment-20919</link>
		<dc:creator>mikestallard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 06:05:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1101#comment-20919</guid>
		<description>I once knew a family that was in debt. They lived in a large house in Norwood. They smoked and drank generously. They had expensive holidays on narrow boats. Their children did not want for anything. 
When the debt deepened, did they cut back? No. They borrowed money from their friends to pay the bills, but, more important, for smokes.
One day, their house was repossessed and suddenly they found themselves in the street. The odd thing is that it came so suddenly and they were surprised!

I hope you appreciate this little parable.......</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I once knew a family that was in debt. They lived in a large house in Norwood. They smoked and drank generously. They had expensive holidays on narrow boats. Their children did not want for anything.<br />
When the debt deepened, did they cut back? No. They borrowed money from their friends to pay the bills, but, more important, for smokes.<br />
One day, their house was repossessed and suddenly they found themselves in the street. The odd thing is that it came so suddenly and they were surprised!</p>
<p>I hope you appreciate this little parable&#8230;&#8230;.</p>
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