Comments on: Nice drug – if you can get it on the NHS. http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/18/nice-drug-if-you-can-get-it-on-the-nhs/ Conservative Party Candidate for Wokingham Sun, 21 Mar 2010 09:58:12 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Little Man in a Toque » The old England/UK conundrum http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/18/nice-drug-if-you-can-get-it-on-the-nhs/#comment-23567 Little Man in a Toque » The old England/UK conundrum Fri, 22 Aug 2008 12:05:17 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1333#comment-23567 [...] I was disappointed and somewhat amused to notice that John Redwood had engaged in a spot of editing on Wednesday. Originally his NICE article read like so: [...] [...] I was disappointed and somewhat amused to notice that John Redwood had engaged in a spot of editing on Wednesday. Originally his NICE article read like so: [...]

]]> By: wonkotsane http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/18/nice-drug-if-you-can-get-it-on-the-nhs/#comment-23509 wonkotsane Wed, 20 Aug 2008 11:02:19 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1333#comment-23509 It's important to note that the Welsh government can also fund drugs that NICE refuses to fund. Decisions made by NICE are only binding in England. It’s important to note that the Welsh government can also fund drugs that NICE refuses to fund. Decisions made by NICE are only binding in England.

]]> By: Derek http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/18/nice-drug-if-you-can-get-it-on-the-nhs/#comment-23508 Derek Wed, 20 Aug 2008 10:55:20 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1333#comment-23508 NICE to see you, to see you NICE. NICE to see you, to see you NICE.

]]> By: gadgie http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/18/nice-drug-if-you-can-get-it-on-the-nhs/#comment-23507 gadgie Wed, 20 Aug 2008 10:40:26 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1333#comment-23507 Nice was set up to absolve politiciansand especially Scottish MP's in ministerial seats from copping flak.Setting up this quango was an attempt in one small way to answer the west lothian question, that's all. English taxpayers are forced to pay for the parliaments of Wales Scotland Stormont and brussels,but then are refused cancer drugs because of the expense. Incredible, but it does not look like Cameron will do anything to help. Nice was set up to absolve politiciansand especially Scottish MP’s in ministerial seats from copping flak.Setting up this quango was an attempt in one small way to answer the west lothian question, that’s all. English taxpayers are forced to pay for the parliaments of Wales Scotland Stormont and brussels,but then are refused cancer drugs because of the expense. Incredible, but it does not look like Cameron will do anything to help.

]]> By: Mr A.D.Dagger http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/18/nice-drug-if-you-can-get-it-on-the-nhs/#comment-23505 Mr A.D.Dagger Wed, 20 Aug 2008 10:03:28 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1333#comment-23505 It's NICE to see you have amended the piece by removing the incorrect reference to the UK and replacing it with ENGLISH. Even you can see the adverse affect of assymetrical devolution - at last. It’s NICE to see you have amended the piece by removing the incorrect reference to the UK and replacing it with ENGLISH.
Even you can see the adverse affect of assymetrical devolution – at last.

]]> By: Patrick Harris http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/18/nice-drug-if-you-can-get-it-on-the-nhs/#comment-23504 Patrick Harris Wed, 20 Aug 2008 09:50:06 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1333#comment-23504 N.I.C.E. is just another quango that the government uses to shed responsibility, responsibility that we, the electorate expected them to shoulder once they had taken up office in Parliament. Whilst MPs pay, allowances and pensions spiral upwards so their responsibilities spiral downwards. The problem is, I do not see that it will be any different if the Tories should get lucky and win the next election. Incidentally, you omit to mention that the majority of these drugs are availabe in Scotland and are free in Wales. Only in England do patients have to resort to the law courts in order to obtain life enhancing/saving drugs and then, at a cost of £7.20 per item. N.I.C.E. is just another quango that the government uses to shed responsibility, responsibility that we, the electorate expected them to shoulder once they had taken up office in Parliament.
Whilst MPs pay, allowances and pensions spiral upwards so their responsibilities spiral downwards.
The problem is, I do not see that it will be any different if the Tories should get lucky and win the next election.
Incidentally, you omit to mention that the majority of these drugs are availabe in Scotland and are free in Wales. Only in England do patients have to resort to the law courts in order to obtain life enhancing/saving drugs and then, at a cost of £7.20 per item.

]]> By: Lee Jakeman http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/18/nice-drug-if-you-can-get-it-on-the-nhs/#comment-23499 Lee Jakeman Wed, 20 Aug 2008 05:19:41 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1333#comment-23499 "... single purchaser in the UK market." Er - you mean the ENGLISH market, don't you? “… single purchaser in the UK market.” Er – you mean the ENGLISH market, don’t you?

]]> By: T Ritchie (Sr) http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/18/nice-drug-if-you-can-get-it-on-the-nhs/#comment-23497 T Ritchie (Sr) Tue, 19 Aug 2008 23:50:15 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1333#comment-23497 The article fails to mention that there are three NHSs, and English patients are often denied medications which are available elsewhere in the UK. Decisions of NICE, (the National Institute to Curb Expenditure) do not apply in Scotland. The article fails to mention that there are three NHSs, and English patients are often denied medications which are available elsewhere in the UK.

Decisions of NICE, (the National Institute to Curb Expenditure) do not apply in Scotland.

]]> By: Derek http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/18/nice-drug-if-you-can-get-it-on-the-nhs/#comment-23495 Derek Tue, 19 Aug 2008 21:44:28 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1333#comment-23495 John UK:NICE? NICE has no jurisdiction in Scotland. The Scottish Medicines Consortium the SMC performs the role of NICE in Scotland. So you need to mention England! John UK:NICE?

NICE has no jurisdiction in Scotland. The Scottish Medicines Consortium the SMC performs the role of NICE in Scotland.

So you need to mention England!

]]> By: David Gerard http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/18/nice-drug-if-you-can-get-it-on-the-nhs/#comment-23494 David Gerard Tue, 19 Aug 2008 20:14:33 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1333#comment-23494 It's a good thing they can approve Viagra instead of cancer drugs. http://notnews.today.com/2008/08/18/drug-firms-deny-pricing-for-profit/ It’s a good thing they can approve Viagra instead of cancer drugs. http://notnews.today.com/2008/08/18/drug-firms-deny-pricing-for-profit/

]]> By: Matthew Reynolds http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/18/nice-drug-if-you-can-get-it-on-the-nhs/#comment-23477 Matthew Reynolds Mon, 18 Aug 2008 19:10:59 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1333#comment-23477 Well John as David Cameron wants to match Labour spending levels and just wants a slightly bolder version of Blairite NHS reform how on earth will voting Tory pave the way for the problems that you outline being solved ? Your critique leads one to the view that policies more radical than the Blair style stuff being favoured by messars Cameron , Letwin and Lansley are required . The Lib Dems are of the view that if you cannot be treated within a certain time you can go private if the provider can do it for the same or less as the NHS with the state being the cost . You will only make private healthcare more affordable and the NHS better at healing the sick if market failure is corrected and competition and where needed co-operation is fostered . Why can David Cameron not do us all a favour & read that great Redwood work Healthy Choices ? We need a new NHS policy that will make things better - 11 years of Blairism has not worked ! It is worrying that a Party lead by a 'joke ' has a better idea than the Tories who will be in office by 2010..... If the Tories want a decent healthcare policy just get David Laws in for a few chats ! We have EU style spending - why can we not have EU style quality of care ? Mr Laws held a marginal seat in 2001 & 2005 by being a perfect blend on conservatism & liberalism and as such explains why Mr Cameron is basically in a position to see the Tories win office in 2009-10 . That is what the voters want reflected in healthcare policy ! Well John as David Cameron wants to match Labour spending levels and just wants a slightly bolder version of Blairite NHS reform how on earth will voting Tory pave the way for the problems that you outline being solved ? Your critique leads one to the view that policies more radical than the Blair style stuff being favoured by messars Cameron , Letwin and Lansley are required . The Lib Dems are of the view that if you cannot be treated within a certain time you can go private if the provider can do it for the same or less as the NHS with the state being the cost . You will only make private healthcare more affordable and the NHS better at healing the sick if market failure is corrected and competition and where needed co-operation is fostered . Why can David Cameron not do us all a favour & read that great Redwood work Healthy Choices ? We need a new NHS policy that will make things better – 11 years of Blairism has not worked ! It is worrying that a Party lead by a ‘joke ‘ has a better idea than the Tories who will be in office by 2010…..

If the Tories want a decent healthcare policy just get David Laws in for a few chats ! We have EU style spending – why can we not have EU style quality of care ? Mr Laws held a marginal seat in 2001 & 2005 by being a perfect blend on conservatism & liberalism and as such explains why Mr Cameron is basically in a position to see the Tories win office in 2009-10 . That is what the voters want reflected in healthcare policy !

]]> By: GeoffH http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/18/nice-drug-if-you-can-get-it-on-the-nhs/#comment-23470 GeoffH Mon, 18 Aug 2008 15:33:37 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1333#comment-23470 The whole NICE and NHS approach is the inverse of what is needed. If a drug is safe and doctors feel it be effective for their patient, then it should be prescribed and paid for. Cost or cost-effectiveness should not be the issue. These expensive treatments are always going to be beyond the reach of most people. That's why we have an NHS and pay taxes for it. On the other hand, ordinary everyday treatments that are cheap are well within the means of most people. These should be paid for by the patient. Prescription charges are a feeble attempt at achieving this. We should go further. All doctor visits should be charged. hospital stays should attract a contribution charge. By charging most people small sums (an insurance excess, if you like) then the expensive, rare treatments for kidney cancer and the like would be attainable. The whole NICE and NHS approach is the inverse of what is needed.

If a drug is safe and doctors feel it be effective for their patient, then it should be prescribed and paid for. Cost or cost-effectiveness should not be the issue.

These expensive treatments are always going to be beyond the reach of most people. That’s why we have an NHS and pay taxes for it.

On the other hand, ordinary everyday treatments that are cheap are well within the means of most people. These should be paid for by the patient. Prescription charges are a feeble attempt at achieving this.

We should go further. All doctor visits should be charged. hospital stays should attract a contribution charge.

By charging most people small sums (an insurance excess, if you like) then the expensive, rare treatments for kidney cancer and the like would be attainable.

]]> By: adam http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/18/nice-drug-if-you-can-get-it-on-the-nhs/#comment-23465 adam Mon, 18 Aug 2008 14:29:57 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1333#comment-23465 I think its unrealistic for the NHS to be expected to provide brand new drugs which cost so much. The basics should be in place first and there is still a shortage of beds and understaffing being reported in the press. I believe labours investment went mostly on redesigning and remodelling the NHS and for some reason giving GPs ridiculous pay rises (no worries about inflation there!) I think its unrealistic for the NHS to be expected to provide brand new drugs which cost so much.

The basics should be in place first and there is still a shortage of beds and understaffing being reported in the press.

I believe labours investment went mostly on redesigning and remodelling the NHS and for some reason giving GPs ridiculous pay rises (no worries about inflation there!)

]]> By: no one http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/18/nice-drug-if-you-can-get-it-on-the-nhs/#comment-23459 no one Mon, 18 Aug 2008 11:50:05 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1333#comment-23459 thanks for posting this as more people travel they know that the nhs really is the worst health system in the developed world, they see with their own eyes the differences between the UK and the rest of the world, the NHS needs changing into a national medical insurance sheme which does not own or operate providers of care and the Mao China style management of the NHS needs to topple as soon as possible for the benefit of all of us http://notdrrant.blogspot.com/ thanks for posting this

as more people travel they know that the nhs really is the worst health system in the developed world, they see with their own eyes the differences between the UK and the rest of the world, the NHS needs changing into a national medical insurance sheme which does not own or operate providers of care

and the Mao China style management of the NHS needs to topple as soon as possible for the benefit of all of us

http://notdrrant.blogspot.com/

]]> By: Neil Craig http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/18/nice-drug-if-you-can-get-it-on-the-nhs/#comment-23452 Neil Craig Mon, 18 Aug 2008 09:57:44 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1333#comment-23452 There is a fair bit of "its either illegal or compulsory" to medical drugs. We have just seen a drug called Rimber, which has produced very substantial results in preventing alzheimers. Unfortunately so much testing is required that it is unlikely it will be approved in time to save anybody seeing the first symptoms now. I think people should have the free choice to decide whether they wish to try such drugs even if it does take a lot longer before the NMS accept them. I am quite certain that an awful lot of people would take a small risk to prevent alzheimers. There is a fair bit of “its either illegal or compulsory” to medical drugs. We have just seen a drug called Rimber, which has produced very substantial results in preventing alzheimers.

Unfortunately so much testing is required that it is unlikely it will be approved in time to save anybody seeing the first symptoms now. I think people should have the free choice to decide whether they wish to try such drugs even if it does take a lot longer before the NMS accept them. I am quite certain that an awful lot of people would take a small risk to prevent alzheimers.

]]> By: Johnny Norfolk http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/18/nice-drug-if-you-can-get-it-on-the-nhs/#comment-23446 Johnny Norfolk Mon, 18 Aug 2008 09:14:47 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1333#comment-23446 Labour cannt run anything. It set up NICE so it could hide behind it and try avoid direct blame. It is telling the doctors how to do their jobs. What it should be doing is pushing responsibility down to the lowest level possible, instead it is doing the opposite. We are being run like some 3rd world old Eastern Bloc country. Labour cannt run anything. It set up NICE so it could hide behind it and try avoid direct blame. It is telling the doctors how to do their jobs. What it should be doing is pushing responsibility down to the lowest level possible, instead it is doing the opposite.

We are being run like some 3rd world old Eastern Bloc country.

]]> By: Letters From A Tory http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/18/nice-drug-if-you-can-get-it-on-the-nhs/#comment-23444 Letters From A Tory Mon, 18 Aug 2008 09:06:22 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1333#comment-23444 NICE is a curious body, in the sense that it gets so much stick from the media and the public yet many other countries are desperate to put a body such as NICE in place because it does such a good job of focusing taxpayers' money on cost-effective treatment. This ltimately keeps some sanity on healthcare spending, something which France and the USA can only dream of. http://lettersfromatory.wordpress.com NICE is a curious body, in the sense that it gets so much stick from the media and the public yet many other countries are desperate to put a body such as NICE in place because it does such a good job of focusing taxpayers’ money on cost-effective treatment. This ltimately keeps some sanity on healthcare spending, something which France and the USA can only dream of.

http://lettersfromatory.wordpress.com

]]> By: Stuart Fairney http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/08/18/nice-drug-if-you-can-get-it-on-the-nhs/#comment-23438 Stuart Fairney Mon, 18 Aug 2008 07:00:07 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=1333#comment-23438 I've always seen NIHCE as a body whose sole purpose was to delay the uptake of new drugs until their patent nears its end and cheap generic versions become available. Hence when you get politicised reports about a drugs alleged lack of effectiveness which contradict genuinely neutral bodies you cannot help but be cynical. I’ve always seen NIHCE as a body whose sole purpose was to delay the uptake of new drugs until their patent nears its end and cheap generic versions become available.

Hence when you get politicised reports about a drugs alleged lack of effectiveness which contradict genuinely neutral bodies you cannot help but be cynical.

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