Comments on: Welfare reform – back to the future? http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/12/10/welfare-reform-back-to-the-future/ Conservative Party Candidate for Wokingham Fri, 19 Mar 2010 18:16:21 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Tomek http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/12/10/welfare-reform-back-to-the-future/#comment-29571 Tomek Thu, 25 Dec 2008 12:38:34 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=2346#comment-29571 I fully support your view Paul,but still the task like convincing Mr Che Bazman Guevara is hopeless. During my almost 4 year stay in UK, I had contacts with hundreds of Poles. 1. People livin 5 in one room? Sure, 5 or more in one house but what is wrong with it? Oh yes, there is something wrong - deposits not returned by landlords at the end of tenancy! 2. What is wrong with people going 5 in a car to work? Just enviroment friendly attitude. 3. Eating the cheapest food? If healthy home made sandwiches and youghurt are cheaper than coke and oily chips from factory cantine then the choice is obvious. Paul - your employment offer was not attractive. You should have provided full pay for being "sick" on mondays and fridays, mobile phones upgraded regularly, right to have unlimited breaks. You should have promised no disciplinary interviews not to breach human rights of your employees etc... I fully support your view Paul,but still the task like convincing Mr Che Bazman Guevara is hopeless.
During my almost 4 year stay in UK, I had contacts with hundreds of Poles.
1. People livin 5 in one room? Sure, 5 or more in one house but what is wrong with it? Oh yes, there is something wrong – deposits not returned by landlords at the end of tenancy!
2. What is wrong with people going 5 in a car to work? Just enviroment friendly attitude.
3. Eating the cheapest food? If healthy home made sandwiches and youghurt are cheaper than coke and oily chips from factory cantine then the choice is obvious.
Paul – your employment offer was not attractive. You should have provided full pay for being “sick” on mondays and fridays, mobile phones upgraded regularly, right to have unlimited breaks. You should have promised no disciplinary interviews not to breach human rights of your employees etc…

]]> By: Robert http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/12/10/welfare-reform-back-to-the-future/#comment-29133 Robert Mon, 15 Dec 2008 10:44:54 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=2346#comment-29133 The problem is I lost the use of my legs in an accident not my fault, I was left without the use of my bowel bladder which has affected my kidneys liver and my heart my condition goes up and down,over the last year down wards. But I want to work I'd love to work I was a supervisor for a large building company . Now I went for a job with a well known building merchants open to the public, the job was advising people about building problems and giving general advice, I can do this without legs, the company said yes your suitable for the job but having no legs customers might find it difficult to talk to you, they gave the job to a bloke from Poland and sent him for English lessons. I've had this type of treatment for the last ten years, the New Deal was a laugh, the Pathways to work failed, and work fare is just a means of lowering what benefits I get, here I am give me a job and I will do it. The problem is I lost the use of my legs in an accident not my fault, I was left without the use of my bowel bladder which has affected my kidneys liver and my heart my condition goes up and down,over the last year down wards.

But I want to work I’d love to work I was a supervisor for a large building company .

Now I went for a job with a well known building merchants open to the public, the job was advising people about building problems and giving general advice, I can do this without legs, the company said yes your suitable for the job but having no legs customers might find it difficult to talk to you, they gave the job to a bloke from Poland and sent him for English lessons. I’ve had this type of treatment for the last ten years, the New Deal was a laugh, the Pathways to work failed, and work fare is just a means of lowering what benefits I get, here I am give me a job and I will do it.

]]> By: mikestallard http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/12/10/welfare-reform-back-to-the-future/#comment-29098 mikestallard Sun, 14 Dec 2008 17:50:36 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=2346#comment-29098 I always make a point of looking up your references. This was excellent too. Thank you. The words which ought to be printed above everyone's computer are these, surely: "The U.S. dollar is a green piece of paper. The only thing that gives it any value is confidence and trust. Confidence and trust are the only thing that distinguishes a U.S. Buck from a Schrute Buck. The more that we print, the less valuable they become. The government certainly appears to be printing money and distributing it willy-nilly. In 2002, Mr. Bernanke honestly admitted he had no idea what the economic effects of injecting money into the system would be. I guess we will find out." I always make a point of looking up your references. This was excellent too. Thank you. The words which ought to be printed above everyone’s computer are these, surely:
“The U.S. dollar is a green piece of paper. The only thing that gives it any value is confidence and trust. Confidence and trust are the only thing that distinguishes a U.S. Buck from a Schrute Buck. The more that we print, the less valuable they become. The government certainly appears to be printing money and distributing it willy-nilly. In 2002, Mr. Bernanke honestly admitted he had no idea what the economic effects of injecting money into the system would be. I guess we will find out.”

]]> By: mikestallard http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/12/10/welfare-reform-back-to-the-future/#comment-29096 mikestallard Sun, 14 Dec 2008 17:27:21 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=2346#comment-29096 With immigrant workers, the minimum wage was, so often, a joke. Oh yes, they all got it! Indeed, in a factory, many were on £11 an hour. Mind you, there was then £5 to the agency, £2 for transport to and from work/day, then, of course, some had to have acommodation and, yes, food....... With immigrant workers, the minimum wage was, so often, a joke. Oh yes, they all got it! Indeed, in a factory, many were on £11 an hour. Mind you, there was then £5 to the agency, £2 for transport to and from work/day, then, of course, some had to have acommodation and, yes, food…….

]]> By: Bazman http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/12/10/welfare-reform-back-to-the-future/#comment-29063 Bazman Sun, 14 Dec 2008 07:59:59 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=2346#comment-29063 He could also have the Daily Mail life of running a wine or antique shop. He could also have the Daily Mail life of running a wine or antique shop.

]]> By: Bazman http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/12/10/welfare-reform-back-to-the-future/#comment-29062 Bazman Sun, 14 Dec 2008 07:57:46 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=2346#comment-29062 The next door neighbors son could pick in the fields or if he was ambitious and naive, work for Paul as I suspect Paul's company just wants a lot of free work. No qualifications/ skill leading to 40 grand? Commission based no doubt. No East Europeans interested? Must have been bad. Get real. Everyone else did, as you have found out Paul, your business is not everyones business. Bosses tend to run companies for their own benefit and complain when they can't get staff. He will of course be smart and get a job on the council or become a teacher as you say. As few companies have formal apprentice/training schemes. Cheaper to poach from each other, employ sub standard foreign workers, and bleat about education and the government of the day, as well as the youth of today. As if they have ever been any different. The next door neighbors son could pick in the fields or if he was ambitious and naive, work for Paul as I suspect Paul’s company just wants a lot of free work. No qualifications/ skill leading to 40 grand? Commission based no doubt. No East Europeans interested? Must have been bad. Get real. Everyone else did, as you have found out Paul, your business is not everyones business. Bosses tend to run companies for their own benefit and complain when they can’t get staff.
He will of course be smart and get a job on the council or become a teacher as you say. As few companies have formal apprentice/training schemes. Cheaper to poach from each other, employ sub standard foreign workers, and bleat about education and the government of the day, as well as the youth of today. As if they have ever been any different.

]]> By: mikestallard http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/12/10/welfare-reform-back-to-the-future/#comment-29050 mikestallard Sat, 13 Dec 2008 19:36:30 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=2346#comment-29050 The Zloty is now standing at 4.5 to the pound. It has, four years ago, been right up in the 20s. Immigrants are not coming over any more (except a trickle from Latvia and Lithuania and loads from the Commonwealth). This means, round here, that the fields which are not being used for bio fuels are going to remain unpicked unless there are some students around. I do not think my next door neighbour who works in a factory is going to be that pleased when his son leaves "College" and goes onto the dole to be, in fact, supported by his dad. His mum, of course, works for the Council, so she is OK. The Zloty is now standing at 4.5 to the pound. It has, four years ago, been right up in the 20s. Immigrants are not coming over any more (except a trickle from Latvia and Lithuania and loads from the Commonwealth). This means, round here, that the fields which are not being used for bio fuels are going to remain unpicked unless there are some students around.
I do not think my next door neighbour who works in a factory is going to be that pleased when his son leaves “College” and goes onto the dole to be, in fact, supported by his dad.
His mum, of course, works for the Council, so she is OK.

]]> By: Paul http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/12/10/welfare-reform-back-to-the-future/#comment-29041 Paul Sat, 13 Dec 2008 17:31:22 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=2346#comment-29041 The job in question could lead to a job paying £30k+ ; we trained more than one person to that level. Why one should pay £20 / hour (about £40,000 a year if you do 7.5 hours a day 5 days a week) to anyone with no qualifications, skills or experience, or indeed why anyone is naive enough to expect that is beyond me. People who think like this (economic illiteracy) are the reason the country is in such a mess. The job in question could lead to a job paying £30k+ ; we trained more than one person to that level.

Why one should pay £20 / hour (about £40,000 a year if you do 7.5 hours a day 5 days a week) to anyone with no qualifications, skills or experience, or indeed why anyone is naive enough to expect that is beyond me.

People who think like this (economic illiteracy) are the reason the country is in such a mess.

]]> By: Bazman http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/12/10/welfare-reform-back-to-the-future/#comment-29023 Bazman Sat, 13 Dec 2008 07:55:49 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=2346#comment-29023 Yes Paul migrants do living five to room going to work for any pay in any conditions five in a car and eating the cheapest food. Often working illegally and living in illegal conditions. Your any age 16-65, no qualifications needed, and chance for training and development. I bet had 'negotiable' wages that where the going rate. The 'going rate' is the market rate, not yours or the workers rate. If you had paid £20 an hour you would have had to many applicants, telling us the problem is that its not a shortage of workers, but a shortage of money. Your business is not anyone else's business. Further leading to the conclusion that your business was not viable on the rates of pay needed for the workers and the country. Well done that man for lasting two weeks! I would have not even spent two seconds looking at your ad. British workers are not desperate enough is what you are saying. They may be thick, but not thick enough to work for the likes of you. Yes Paul migrants do living five to room going to work for any pay in any conditions five in a car and eating the cheapest food. Often working illegally and living in illegal conditions. Your any age 16-65, no qualifications needed, and chance for training and development. I bet had ‘negotiable’ wages that where the going rate. The ‘going rate’ is the market rate, not yours or the workers rate. If you had paid £20 an hour you would have had to many applicants, telling us the problem is that its not a shortage of workers, but a shortage of money. Your business is not anyone else’s business. Further leading to the conclusion that your business was not viable on the rates of pay needed for the workers and the country.
Well done that man for lasting two weeks! I would have not even spent two seconds looking at your ad.
British workers are not desperate enough is what you are saying. They may be thick, but not thick enough to work for the likes of you.

]]> By: marksany http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/12/10/welfare-reform-back-to-the-future/#comment-28989 marksany Fri, 12 Dec 2008 08:23:03 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=2346#comment-28989 Meanwhile, the daily Mail think that the only impact of the collapse of the pound is that holiays in France will be more expensive. Meanwhile, the daily Mail think that the only impact of the collapse of the pound is that holiays in France will be more expensive.

]]> By: Paul http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/12/10/welfare-reform-back-to-the-future/#comment-28978 Paul Thu, 11 Dec 2008 21:56:09 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=2346#comment-28978 Bazman, I used to work in an area with 10% unemployment. I had jobs available, any age 16-65, no qualifications needed, chance for training and development. I put the jobs in the local job centre. In three years I had precisely one applicant via there who gave it up after a fortnight. The jobs are there. They are too 'fussy'. Odd that migrants, who can't get benefits (I believe), seem to find employment. Bazman, I used to work in an area with 10% unemployment. I had jobs available, any age 16-65, no qualifications needed, chance for training and development. I put the jobs in the local job centre. In three years I had precisely one applicant via there who gave it up after a fortnight.

The jobs are there. They are too ‘fussy’. Odd that migrants, who can’t get benefits (I believe), seem to find employment.

]]> By: Paul http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/12/10/welfare-reform-back-to-the-future/#comment-28977 Paul Thu, 11 Dec 2008 21:52:59 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=2346#comment-28977 Dunno about the snap election. I expect things to get much worse after Christmas ; lots of redundancies and cutbacks. Brown gets away with it because his electorate is thick ; they look at Petrol at 87p (nothing to do with him) and all the cheap things they can buy (25% off sales because retailers are desperate) and think that his 'medicine' is working. They look at Woolworths and think 'wow, cheap goodies' ; not as an economic and employment mess. Brown will never axe his beloved regulators, quangos and other pointless public sector workers, or attack the benefit scroungers. No-one else will vote for him. Dunno about the snap election. I expect things to get much worse after Christmas ; lots of redundancies and cutbacks.

Brown gets away with it because his electorate is thick ; they look at Petrol at 87p (nothing to do with him) and all the cheap things they can buy (25% off sales because retailers are desperate) and think that his ‘medicine’ is working. They look at Woolworths and think ‘wow, cheap goodies’ ; not as an economic and employment mess.

Brown will never axe his beloved regulators, quangos and other pointless public sector workers, or attack the benefit scroungers.

No-one else will vote for him.

]]> By: Bazman http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/12/10/welfare-reform-back-to-the-future/#comment-28958 Bazman Thu, 11 Dec 2008 15:19:50 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=2346#comment-28958 Labour have got a lot to answer for. The huge majorities in the commons should have been put to better use. Politically annihilating the Tories could have been one use, but my point is that any government is responsible for a lot of unemployment and expecting 55 year old people to suddenly change their lives and towns of residence on the scale required is not realistic. As well as the question of should it be done. Many northern towns were industrial wastelands with mass unemployment and rundown town centers in the time of John Major for your information though. I know they were, as I was there... Labour have got a lot to answer for. The huge majorities in the commons should have been put to better use. Politically annihilating the Tories could have been one use, but my point is that any government is responsible for a lot of unemployment and expecting 55 year old people to suddenly change their lives and towns of residence on the scale required is not realistic. As well as the question of should it be done. Many northern towns were industrial wastelands with mass unemployment and rundown town centers in the time of John Major for your information though. I know they were, as I was there…

]]> By: rose http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/12/10/welfare-reform-back-to-the-future/#comment-28950 rose Thu, 11 Dec 2008 11:44:29 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=2346#comment-28950 And I would say Today's Evan Davies needs a tutorial from JR too. And I would say Today’s Evan Davies needs a tutorial from JR too.

]]> By: StevenL http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/12/10/welfare-reform-back-to-the-future/#comment-28937 StevenL Thu, 11 Dec 2008 02:00:02 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=2346#comment-28937 This sounds fun, how about: "His biggest export was the wealth of the hardworking families he claimed to support." "The truth is, his divorce from Prudence is landing us all with a rather nasty surprise of a bill." "Whilst he fiddled with VAT, the sterling in our pockets burnt." "He promised us no more boom and bust, he promised us he wouldn't let house prices get out of control, seemingly the man who ran our finances for 10 years lacked the economic nouce to link the two together." This sounds fun, how about:

“His biggest export was the wealth of the hardworking families he claimed to support.”

“The truth is, his divorce from Prudence is landing us all with a rather nasty surprise of a bill.”

“Whilst he fiddled with VAT, the sterling in our pockets burnt.”

“He promised us no more boom and bust, he promised us he wouldn’t let house prices get out of control, seemingly the man who ran our finances for 10 years lacked the economic nouce to link the two together.”

]]> By: MT's Pet Piranha http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/12/10/welfare-reform-back-to-the-future/#comment-28931 MT's Pet Piranha Wed, 10 Dec 2008 22:12:58 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=2346#comment-28931 John, I realise this is a touchy subject politically and I don't want to get you into trouble, but do you not think re-visiting our support of the minimum wage could not only help the recession but also help alleviate the welfare problem at the same time? reply: No, the Minimum wage did destroy some low paid jobs when it came in. We have no wish to revisit it now. There are many more important causes that could help get us out of this mess. John,

I realise this is a touchy subject politically and I don’t want to get you into trouble, but do you not think re-visiting our support of the minimum wage could not only help the recession but also help alleviate the welfare problem at the same time?

reply: No, the Minimum wage did destroy some low paid jobs when it came in. We have no wish to revisit it now. There are many more important causes that could help get us out of this mess.

]]> By: MT's Pet Piranha http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/12/10/welfare-reform-back-to-the-future/#comment-28930 MT's Pet Piranha Wed, 10 Dec 2008 22:09:48 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=2346#comment-28930 "There is not enough jobs in the areas where the unemployed are. That is why they are unemployed." *Important to remember that lack of demand for employment isn't the only cause of unemployment. (you may not have meant this, but the above sentence gave me that impression) The answer to the lack of labour mobility, is not to maintain high benefit rates just because it's too late, but to facilitate the movement of labour so that those who wish to work can do so. “There is not enough jobs in the areas where the unemployed are. That is why they are unemployed.”

*Important to remember that lack of demand for employment isn’t the only cause of unemployment. (you may not have meant this, but the above sentence gave me that impression)

The answer to the lack of labour mobility, is not to maintain high benefit rates just because it’s too late, but to facilitate the movement of labour so that those who wish to work can do so.

]]> By: marksany http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/12/10/welfare-reform-back-to-the-future/#comment-28929 marksany Wed, 10 Dec 2008 21:22:43 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=2346#comment-28929 Purnell's white paper is just Spin. They aren't actually going to take money off people. But it sounds like they are being hard, and giving Tories less space to work in. "The real point is that welfare claimants' have no strong motivation to find a job because they lose more in benefits than they can earn in net wages. Until the Powers That Be grasp this simple fact, all this tinkering achieves nothing." M Wadsworth today. Purnell’s white paper is just Spin. They aren’t actually going to take money off people. But it sounds like they are being hard, and giving Tories less space to work in.

“The real point is that welfare claimants’ have no strong motivation to find a job because they lose more in benefits than they can earn in net wages. Until the Powers That Be grasp this simple fact, all this tinkering achieves nothing.” M Wadsworth today.

]]> By: Patrick http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/12/10/welfare-reform-back-to-the-future/#comment-28928 Patrick Wed, 10 Dec 2008 21:12:39 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=2346#comment-28928 John, As the epic scale of Labour policy failings starts to unwind and the economy circles the bowl, do you feel there is balanced reporting of the facts? The BBC and even Sky seem to be so very 'hmm, ah, well maybe' about it all. It can't be right that there is not a single big name TV journalist who will stand up and say 'they'be blown it'. I'm no politico and don't really know how these things pan out in the westminster bubble - but does someone in the Tory party ever get on the phone to Peston, Robinson, Boulton, Paxman, Snow, etc and ask them what is going on? The honest truth is we're bankrupt. We can't afford our public sector by a wide margin. Politics and economics reporting is all about Brown's 'saved the world gaffe' or 'Sterling gets weaker'. Am I alone in feeling that the ugly truth is somehow unreportable? reply: I am sure CCHQ contacts these people. I spoke to one of them yesterday when I was in a BBC studio,as I do when appropriate. John,

As the epic scale of Labour policy failings starts to unwind and the economy circles the bowl, do you feel there is balanced reporting of the facts? The BBC and even Sky seem to be so very ‘hmm, ah, well maybe’ about it all. It can’t be right that there is not a single big name TV journalist who will stand up and say ‘they’be blown it’.

I’m no politico and don’t really know how these things pan out in the westminster bubble – but does someone in the Tory party ever get on the phone to Peston, Robinson, Boulton, Paxman, Snow, etc and ask them what is going on?

The honest truth is we’re bankrupt. We can’t afford our public sector by a wide margin. Politics and economics reporting is all about Brown’s ’saved the world gaffe’ or ‘Sterling gets weaker’. Am I alone in feeling that the ugly truth is somehow unreportable?

reply: I am sure CCHQ contacts these people. I spoke to one of them yesterday when I was in a BBC studio,as I do when appropriate.

]]> By: Labour’s cynical welfare reform non-policy « The Wilted Rose http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2008/12/10/welfare-reform-back-to-the-future/#comment-28925 Labour’s cynical welfare reform non-policy « The Wilted Rose Wed, 10 Dec 2008 20:14:06 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=2346#comment-28925 [...] ‘policy’ is just another Mandelsonian cynical announcement and, as John Redwood highlights the need for,  reassurance that severely disabled people are not going to be put under pressure or treated [...] [...] ‘policy’ is just another Mandelsonian cynical announcement and, as John Redwood highlights the need for,  reassurance that severely disabled people are not going to be put under pressure or treated [...]

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