Sep 22 2009
I am trying to love the Jaguar XF
In the depths of the used car recession earlier this year I took the advice of some of you and bought myself a nearly new Jaguar XF. The good news was the price, heavily discounted by the market from the original new on the road list price for just a few thousand miles on the clock. You told me it was a gorgeous car and if I could afford one I should go for it.
I am trying to love it. I have learned to approach it from the front, where it looks stylish, and not from the rear. The rear is high backed, wide hipped, middle aged and rather like many other executive motors. I put out of my mind the lush classic lines of the S type which I traded in, which looked great and distinctive from any angle.
The problems begin as soon as I sit in the drivers seat. I know we are going to have another one of those endless rows about who does what and who is in charge, and that the car in its infuriating way will win.
It all starts to go wrong as I try to get the car out of second gear into third as we pull away. The salesman told me with the paddle gear shift I could drive it as a manual if that was my wish. Laugh on. The car refuses third. I try again. It refuses third. I try the third time, and it reluctantly humours me by shifting into third. We approach a bend. I slow down on the engine but do not need to change down. The car changes down. We begin the process of trying to get into third all over again.
If we make progress and start to cruise at a constant speed, the car switches off the dash display telling me what gear we are in. That would be fine if it let me choose, but sometimes it changes the gear silently so I don’t notice. If I then try to reassert control I am in ignorance about which gear we are in. I have to tell the car if I want to change, but it doesn’t have to tell me when it does change.
So I give up trying to choose the right gear, and accept the poor fuel efficiency that results from its wrong choices. I turn on the sat nav when we are parked and put in the destination. Know all car tells me we will travel the 40 miles in a stunning forty minutes. I guess it will take us at least 80 minutes, given the likely traffic and congestion. Car knows best. It takes us eighty five minutes. There is no apology. I set the screen for full screen map so I can see the road ahead when we are in traffic jams. Whislt I am busy looking out of the windscreen the car switches the sat nav map to half page, so you cannot see where you want to go when next you have a chance.
It starts to rain. I carefully choose the right speed of intermittent wipe for dull drizzle. I turn it on. The car is angry, and wipes the screen several times furiously at high speed regardless of my wishes.
Let me out. I want to drive this thing. I feel I have gone backwards. My diesel S type manual was beautiful, did 39 mpg, stayed in the gear I chose and let me read the map. They call this progress?
45 Responses to “I am trying to love the Jaguar XF”
John Redwood has been the Member of Parliament for Wokingham since 1987. First attending Kent College, Canterbury, he graduated from Magdalen College...
Yes, cars have got far too clever for their own good. My wife’s Fiesta does all sorts of clever things with lights, locks, wipers, and I haven’t a clue what is going on when I drive it.
The problems of ‘clumsy automation’ have been well-documented, notably by Dave Woods at Ohio State University. Airbus pilots had similar problems for a while and killed lots of fare-paying passengers in the process.
The dread phrases in incident reports from incidents caused by clumsy automation (in lots of different sectors) are ‘mode errors’ ‘loss of situation awareness’ ‘operator error’. The automation very rarely gets the blame.
Lola Reply:
September 22nd, 2009 at 4:04 pm
Yeah. The classic pilot quote I heard when the computer was flying the ‘plane. “What’s it doing NOW?”.
What do you expect from something designed under an oppressive Government. You have to accept that you know absolutely nothing and appreciate that Nanny knows best….
Wanna swap a nasty Labour-inspired XF for an old Audi? Three pedals, manual gearbox; it does what you tell it to do!
I don’t want to sound like I’m getting at you but perhaps you should have had a test drive before you bought it? Or will you always do what “we” tell you to?
Reply: No I won’t always do what you tell me! Good response. It was the least bad /best value of three marques I tried.
Oh dear, John, you have cut a rod for your own back here! Don’t you know that as a politician you are not allowed to have any opinion critical of a British product? Do you not know that the Wrath of Clarkson will descend upon you now?
PS I agree. It’s nowhere near as pretty as the S-type and I’m not at all surprised that the technology is rubbish too.
John
I told you it looked like a Lexus, not a Jaguar, but that it would not be as good, or as reliable.
Suggest you drive it in automatic mode.
Why buy a luxury car and then want to change gear.
If you want to do something with your left foot turn on the radio and tap your foot to the music.
Sounds a bit like the present Government, do as I say or else.
Is it any good at “U” turns.
JR, promise me you have read the manual. I am a gnat’s thingy from buying an early one, as they are coming into my price range. Jaguar gearbox’s do have a mind of their own. My “J” gate automatic “X” Type does the same. You can shift it manually but the gearbox decides when it will actually change gear; you can’t ram it down to second gear until it calculates you won’t over rev the engine or lock up the driven wheels. Must admit, the XF looks better in the showroom than it does on the road. What colour did you get; this car’s looks are colour sensitive? (Who designed the radiator grill, I need to talk to him/her?).
There is always the new XJ!
http://www.jaguar.com/gb/en/#/new_xj/
Reply:black
It sounds like an automobile analogy of the Labour government.
In the warm economic climes of 2007, a small number of people took the advice of nice Mr Blur and elected themselves a well used former Chancellor. The good news was that the price. The previous incumbent had devalued the post of Prime Minister. They believed their new man was a gorgeous politician and that they should go for him.
They have tried to love him. They learned to approach him from the front, although he prefers to approach from the rear, more easily to place his knife. He is high backed, wide hipped, middle aged and rather like many other senior politicians. They put out of their minds the lush hairstyles of Mr Blur, whom they traded in, despite the fact that he looked great and distinguished from any angle.
The problems began as soon as he sat in the driver’s seat. There were more of those endless rows about who does what and who is in charge and he, in his infuriating way, has won.
It all started to go wrong as soon as he tried to get out of second gear. Mr Mandelson told them that with the paddle shift they could drive him manually if they wished. Laugh on. He refuses to hear a word. They tried again, and he reluctantly humoured them. The country approached a bend. We should have slowed down long ago but it was too late.
If we try to progress the debate, he switches off Parliament. That would be fine if we were allowed to choose our own paths, but sometimes he changes the law and taxation silently, so we don’t notice. If we then try to reassert control we realise we are in ignorance of the state of the nation’s finances.
We have to tell him that we want change, but he doesn’t have to tell us that he won’t. Know-all tells us we will be out of recession in a jiffy and the public finances are in great shape. We guess it will take a lot longer, given the catastrophic decisions he has made over the past decade. He knows best; it takes years. There is no apology. We can see the road ahead, but whilst we are busy looking for the best route he ups taxes and public spending, so we haven’t got a chance of going where we want to go.
It’s raining hard. The private sector carefully chooses the right cuts to avoid swerving into the ditch. But he is angry, and prints tons of money and hires loads more civil servants, furiously and at high speed regardless of our wishes.
Let us out! We want to run our own lives! We feel we have gone backwards! They thought their Mr Blur was beautiful, but it was all a dream. They call this progress?
Reply:wonderful! Did I write a parable after all?
James Morrison Reply:
September 22nd, 2009 at 11:30 am
Genius!
Citizen Responsible Reply:
September 22nd, 2009 at 11:52 am
I like it!
Acorn Reply:
September 22nd, 2009 at 2:36 pm
“Post of the Month Award” Robert. Definitely worth five smiley faces.
Love this new cynical JR Blog-site. BTW; did you here the one about the guy who tried to sue the company that made his Camper Van? They didn’t tell him that the “cruise control” only controlled the speed, not the steering or the brakes; you can guess the rest.
Robert K. Oxford Reply:
September 23rd, 2009 at 7:10 pm
I think you must have done
The issue of below-average build quality is what led to the demise of the British-owned car industry in recent decades. I am saddened to read your report that this still happens.
Adam Collyer Reply:
September 22nd, 2009 at 7:32 pm
That view is actually out of date, Mr Williams. Jaguar, for example, tied with Buick for first place in the 2009 JD Power Vehicle Dependability Survey, beating Lexus into third place. You can find it here: http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2009043
Lord Salisbury: “The duty of a Conservative government is to delay change until it becomes harmless.” This appears to be the role of your gear change as well.
Mr Redwood,
Sitting in the House of Commons (when you are able), you should be used to this sort of thing. We have a government that knows best, and is deaf to (and overrides) better opinion, makes the wrong decisions and then offers no apology. Also dressed up in a glossy package, that doesn’t look quite right.
Mr. Redwood,
You should by now know that cars are not designed for the good of the customer, they are designed solely by some young “marketing executive” who has never worked out how cars work. He also does not understand the relationship between a car and it’s driver. I got caught out by buying a fourth car from the manufacturer of the previous three. Brand new, supposedly better, got a test drive…… five minutes round the block so ordered one. It is a dog compared to the other three, although were all the same model. And who would stick the spare wheel under the rear of the car open to anything lying in the road. Of course after two months I had my first puncture for many years, what a shambles it is to change the wheel and almost impossible to return the bad one to it’s home.
You have my sympathy, especially as mine is a much cheaper car than yours.
Rule 1. Never buy a car with a flappy paddle gearbox, unless it’s a full on race or rally car when the things do work but need rebuilding fairly frequently, use straight cut gears that will give you a headache and are very harsh.
Rule 2. Big saloons = full autos all the time. Stick it in drive and sit back.
Rule 3. Buy the diesel. The Jag diesels are excellent.
I have experienced a full auto 2.7 diesel XF and it was just brilliant.
Acorn Reply:
September 22nd, 2009 at 3:21 pm
Lola; may your dog rings and gear slots never need replacing. Listen to the music of a straight cut sequential shift gearbox.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmJH84FnQa8
This is a picture of a Lola.
http://galeria.forocoches.com/data/500/LOLA_T-70_MARK_IIIB_1969_01.jpg
Lola Reply:
September 24th, 2009 at 8:00 pm
My tea cup coaster at work is a used Hewland dog ring from an FT-200 fitted to a Chevron B6.
If you want to see more lola stuff go to
http://lolathebeautiful.blogspot.com/
Lola
I drive an X type. Almost all of the software in the car is awful, even down to the trip computor. My Czech wife drives a Skoda, the software is superb (pun intended). Whoever specified or approved the Jag software should have been fired, or better still, never have been given the job in the first place. The engineers claim lack of money but great improvement could have been had with minimal cost. (I have written a lot of software)
I think the secret though is to put everything in automatic, lights, wipers, gear box etc and ignore the cars decsions. Turn on Radio and distract your self by shouting at that instead.
Lola Reply:
September 22nd, 2009 at 3:18 pm
Our X Type Estate 2.2 diesel, well strictly Mrs Lola’s X Type Estate 2.2 diesel, runs perfectly. All the software works well as does the trip computer. I can get it to do over 43 mpg on a run. It pulls like a train and I can stick it in cruise control, traffic permitting and waft along very happily. I have only one gripe in that I cannot override the automatic dimming of the satnav screen if I use the lights in dim daylight conditions. And btw the satnav is excellent and comes with good european coverage. Plus the service from the local dealer has been exemplary.
J Cooke Reply:
September 23rd, 2009 at 9:02 am
Yes the software does work, but it could be so much better. The Skoda trip computor automatically records the time and distance of any new journey, how many times do you think, ‘Dam, forgot to reset the trip?’ It also has one that does not reset to give you an acumulated total. If you drive various cars you’ll find lots of things on the Jag that could be improved. All in all I like the car, the 4 wheel drive is fantatic. Yes the satnav works but with the touch screen could be better to use and have you seen the price of a map update!! btw, to set the sat nav brightness, press Menu, brightness/contrast and the then select day night, auto etc. Bit tricky when driving but it works.
Olaf Reply:
September 23rd, 2009 at 3:15 pm
I too bought a Skoda to get a good value car that works.
200hp, 37mpg, large boot and controls that do as I say.
In two years and 25000 miles it has developed the grand total of zero faults. Not one. Not a rattle or a squeak or a leaking seal or a drip of oil. Nothing.
So far it has visited the dealer once for it’s first service which comprised of an oil change. And that was free.
Lola Reply:
September 23rd, 2009 at 10:41 am
Mr C, that’s not really a coherent argument. We make decisions on cars with less logic than emotion. Cars are a compromise. The Skoda may have a trip that you like better, but so what? I may have preferred my old tomtom to the jag satnav, but the jag one works OK. whatever a manufacturer does will always leave someone not quite satisfied (it’s like that quote on the packet of nuts – “If you are not entirely satified with this product please return it to us for a full refund”) it is impossible for a product maker to be ceasers wife. What you try to end up with is somehting that does most of what you want in the way you want it to do it. Trouble is we have become so spoiled with the generally excellent choice and all the toys that we feel niggled by a trip computer! Whilst at the same time the thing runs like a train for 200,000kms without a major component change. We’re spoilt!
And thanks for the tip on the satnav screen – I don’t drive Mrs L’s car that often so I hadn’t had time to figure that out.
J Cooke Reply:
September 24th, 2009 at 12:49 pm
Lola, “not a coherent argument”? I seem to recall that the origin of this debate was Mr R thinking of selling the car because of just these sort of things. The trip was an example. Just about every piece of software in the car is flawed. Read Jeremy C’s review of any jag, including the XF and he agrees. I have spoken to the engineers who designed the car and they agree. Yes the mechanics are reliable but why then put up with things that are not good enough on a £30,000 car. It’s a free market, they can sell what they like, but it will hit sales, especially with younger people who know the difference between good and bad human interfaces. For example how many mobiles do Nokia sell for every Motorola? Why?
The XF is a great car but compromised by some poor engineering and cost reducing. To keep it cheap it weighs 1700Kg.
All cars are reliable these days, the other parts need to be right.
Lola Reply:
September 24th, 2009 at 7:50 pm
Your critisism of my comment accepted. I agree about the weight. I have a theory that they designed it for one of their aluminium structures but that the bean counters stepped in. As I also think they did for the L-R Disco 3.
Change it for something else. There’s nothing worse than putting up with something that you don’t really like. Even if you have to pay a bit of a penalty it’s soon forgotten, whereas a daily irritation will be remembered for ever.
You know, we are far to harsh on car makers. On average the modern car is an absolute triumph of engineering and capitalism. Compare the epitome of communistic cars with the Mondeo (as a sort of everymancar).
A Mondeo will do 200,000 kms without a major compenent change. (I have one that’s done over 170,000 miles and it’s still on the original clutch). all the engine electronics are working. It is comfortable, the heater is excellent, the radio too. The build quality has survived family abuse and nothing really rattles. It’s been regularly serviced and other than that petrol has been put in the back and its started on the key. All it has had are two sets of new front discs and a couple of other things like a lamda sensor and a part of the exhaust. It cost me £11400 in 1997. It owes me nothing. And it still does 30 to 38 mpg. Plus it still handles taughtly.
I have been driving since 1969 and the transformation of build quality, corrosion resistance and reliability over that time has been absolutely astonishing. And what did the commies achieve? The Trabant.
I have actually built some cars both from kits and rebuilt others, mainly small racers. When you look at the effort to get one of these to go and the hours it takes and then you look at the Mondeo you wonder why you bother.
I also have a 1996 L-R Defender that has done 170,000 miles. That still runs like a train and is made like meccano so’s you can bolt on new bits as they break. But, since it is a ’60’s design it does corrode and the gearbox is weak, which I have replaced.
Personally I think that modern cars are one of the greatest triumphs of the capitalist system and the fact that we niggle because the satnav doesn’t quite get you exactly home is just risible. This is not to say that there are not vehicles that are not quite functioning as they should be. But these are very complex machines and the incidence of problems is mostly far less than apochryphal stories would have you believe.
Be sensible. Buy a modern car. But do not ever buy one with a flappy paddle gearbox. We, us capitalists, haven’t quite cracked them yet. But we will.
its not a jag
it was not built in coventry
the special mix of bodies from castle brom, engines and axles from radford, and assembly at browns lane is no more
its a sad mix of ford, and indian (words left out)
with a jag badge on it
do yourself a favour and get a british built toyota or nissan
It’s time to own up. I work for Jaguar Land Rover. So I’m biassed.
However, the XF has been extremely successful, leading to Jaguar’s being one of the very few marques to increase their sales in 2008 despite the credit crunch.
Obviously everyone at Jaguar would be delighted that you loved your S Type. But we all want you to love your XF too!
I believe the car has a Jaguardrive Selector that lets you select Sports mode, Drive mode or Manual mode. Are you sure you’ve selected Manual mode if you want to drive it as a manual?
Whover wrote this site knows quality – it is one of the classiest I have seen.
If you bought it at the depths of the ‘car recession’ I bet you could sell it again for pretty much what you paid.
My Mazda diesel is going fine. Had it nearly 22 months now, done over 19,000 miles on it taking it up to 97k and it’s only suffered one minor fault that was sorted for about £150.
I’m tempted to sell up when I keep hearing that there is a shortage of used cars at the moment, but I honestly don’t know what I would buy instead.
If you want to swap…
Hi John – agree completely about the XF; still at least it’s British and you’re not buying foreign, unlike most in this country.
Jaguars remain head and shoulders above their German rivals IMHO, they have style, flair and character that the strudel burners can only dream of. Very sexy cars. But still the new ones aren’t quite as special as of yore…
You might like to peruse this; the sad story of one man’s obsession!
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=44019&id=653286113&l=5ef23af1bd
Good luck with the election next year, by the way… but can’t you get rid that rabble sooner?
David
I know your all beat up on me, but i fell out of love with Jag many years ago. After getting carjacked in Liverpool for my Honda Civic (police refused to attend & told me it was my fault for having a nice car)……i bought a new Skoda vRS Octy.
Once re-mapped it delivered Jag esk perfomance for £13,500 !
Never put a foot wrong, needs replacment but has done well.
Mike
John,
I understand used car prices have risen somewhat over the last six months, especially those which are low mileage “nearly-new” ones.
Sell the XF and you might make a profit and as an older S Type will not have gained as much, you will probably be able to find a good one for less money.
How many people actually sit down and read the vehicle’s owner’s manual? We know the technology is advancing at break neck speeds, yet we believe there is no need to learn or research how it works?
Get a Toyota Yaris, much more efficient. Reliable, does what its told etc.
I did always like the ‘morse’ Jag though, maybe you should get a classic.
I may be day late and a dollar short to this topic: the best car my wife or I ever owned: Toyota Land Cruiser Amazon 4.2 Litre six-cylinder (enough to give a Lib Dem a hear attack), my wife’s car (I must point out she owned it whilst living in NZ not London!) … ‘The Panzer’ as it was affectionately known would go anywhere, roads out to the sticks/bush were of no problem. The Jaguar seems a bit more sedate.
If there is anybody with a Jaguar XF that feels that JR is being unfair with his review you will find it more interesting here:
http://www.xfforum.co.uk/forum/
Mmmm, well let’s see. Your boss, ‘our Dave’ is driven about in a Lexus – so he clearly doesn’t care about supporting British jobs.
And you find it hard to drive an automatic car, that on the whole, has got widespread acclaim.
And you want us to vote for you!
Reply: I don’t find it hard but annoying. My bosses are the voters of Wokingham, not DC.
If you read the manual you would find it says using the paddles in drive only temporarily overrides the gear. To put it in manual mode select sport then use the paddles. If you want to complain about something complain about the salesman!
Reply: It’s the same in Sport mode – it does not hold the gear chosen.
Never did understand why anyone would buy an automatic and want to drive it manually?????
Reply: Because I wanted a manual and they said I had a clutchless one with their paddle shift.
What I think you I’ve to do is put the gearbox into Sport and enable the dynamic (chequered) flag mode. It will then hold the desired gear. The system will drop a gear if the revs drop too low- this is to prevent stalling and hesitation.
Hope that’s sorted it….