Oct 26 2009
Statement of Conservative Immigration Policy
In view of the great interest in this issue in recent days, I thought readers might like to see the latest statement of Opposition Policy on this topic from Damian Green MP:
“Recent events may reinforce the position of immigration as one of the most salient issues for the public. I thought therefore it would be helpful to remind you of Conservative policy in this area.
Britain can benefit from immigration, but not uncontrolled immigration. Since 1997 Labour’s open –door immigration policy has seen the largest and most sustained rise in immigration in the UK’s history, a five-fold increase in the ten years to 2007. Recently published figures have shown that 512,000 people came to the UK as immigrants in the year to December 2008, little change on 527,000 in the year to December 2007. These figures show the pressure immigration places on public services such as housing, health and schools.
Grants of settlement also rose by 19 per cent from 124,855 in 2007 to 148,740 in 2008. This fact shows that the pressure on public resources, imposed by high immigration numbers in recent years, will be permanent. This is yet another indication how foolish Gordon Brown was to use the phrase ‘British jobs for British workers’.
We have developed an immigration policy based on three strands:
Controlling legal migration
First, we plan to introduce an explicit annual limit on the numbers of non- EU economic migrants. This means that there should be an annual limit on the numbers allowed to come here to work from outside the European Union, taking into consideration the effects a rising population has on our public services, transport infrastructure and local communities.
A further step we can take to control immigration directly is the imposition of transitional controls for new EU entrants. They should be applied here as they are in other countries.
As well as having a better controlled immigration system we badly need welfare reform and improved skills training so that we are not simply ignoring millions of British workers, which is why Conservatives have launched a plan to Get Britain Working. We need to do better in making British workers competitive.
Preventing illegal migration
To reduce the amount of illegal immigration, Conservatives will ensure our borders are properly policed. No immigration system will inspire confidence if our borders remain as badly protected as they have been throughout the lifetime of this Government. A Conservative Government would introduce a dedicated border police force to protect the UK from illegal immigration, organised immigration crime and human trafficking.
Promoting Integration
We believe that everyone coming to this country must be ready to embrace the core values of British society, and become a part of their local community. For this reason we will introduce new measures for those coming to the UK as spouses, including raising the age of both the potential spouse and UK sponsor from 18 to 21. We will also introduce an English language test for spouses to ensure that only those whose command of English allows them to play a full part in British life are able to settle in the UK. ”
58 Responses to “Statement of Conservative Immigration Policy”
John Redwood has been the Member of Parliament for Wokingham since 1987. First attending Kent College, Canterbury, he graduated from Magdalen College...
Put in place a policy that unless you have paid in for 3-4 years you don’t get benefits.
That deals with benefit scroungers as well as immigrants.
Two birds, one stone, and saves money
Nikc
I think there are two vital questions which I’m sorry to say I don’t know the answers to:
First, what proportion of the 512,000 immigrants in 2008 were non-EU? And of the 527,000 in 2007?
Second, one often hears about immediate entitlement to benefits for immigrants as one of the chief causes of discontent. At what point do new immigrants become eligible for benefits?
Can anyone help?
Same all talk, doesn’t mean anything, not enough action on the problems we are already facing.
What about the one million illegal immigrants that are already in the country? What about the preferential treatment that immigrants get. Please don’t say they don’t as Labour have already admitted that this is true. What are you going to do about the instant benefits that illegals and asylum seekers get? What are you going to do about the asylum process? What would the Conservatives have done with the planeful of Iraqi’s that got sent back to us when we tried to deport them. What are you going to do about Calais?
What about the visa fiasco. 40,000 have already gone missing in the country?
Are the Conservatives going to go against the Human Rights policies that so many foreign criminals use?
(para left out expressing worries re militant Islamists)
With our (albeit extremely disagreeable) membership with the EU, why do we feel the need to import workers from outside of the EU anyway? Aren’t there enough to choose from already? Actually, don’t bother, we just want our referendum in or out!
You’re not going to get anywhere with this lot, it’s not enough for the ordinary voter… you’re not answering any of the important questions.. (I’m an ordinary person and I want these answered).
You’ll be just as culpable of pushing the electorate towards the BNP as Labour is..
But Mr Redwood, you have made the leap from immigration stastistics straight to a ‘burden’ without backing that with evidence. If there is a case to be made, then surely it would be easy to provide more information to us. I assume you do not seek to influence the public based purely on the recent sensationalist installment of QT? I struggle to believe in this as an issue when there are no hard facts to back up the twitter hype.
Good but we need more detail
What about the inter company transfer visas being given out like confetti, allowing the Indian outsourcers to (bring into ed) our country … workers displacing our own workers, removing the incentives to train the British workforce, and so on. And as people through time move from being here on an inter company transfer visas to being on indefinite leave to remain (as many do) we have total open door….
What about some parts of the community using marriage visas to systematically move (large numbers? ed) here? Individuals randomly falling in love and getting married fair enough, but whole communities using marriage visas as a mechanism to allow (substantial ed) migration here … I don’t think the majority support at all.
What about the public sector allowing large chunks of its work to be moved outside of Europe, from secretaries in India typing up consultants letters for the NHS through to widespread running of IT jobs from India?
What about the fact most large BT sites now have a majority of (overseas) nationals there rather than any European passports? Are the conservatives really going to force BT and friends to change?
Will the positive discrimination for ethnic minorities in some poor parts of the UK in everything from the health service to schools be looked at?
Will we see more working class accents in positions of power in a Conservative Britain? After all we can see positive discrimination for women in candidate lists, and for ethnic minorities in police force recruitment and so on?
On the other hand I wouldn’t want to see folk randomly and genuinely falling in love and getting married from being able to live together? How will the conservatives handle this?
Not simple issues, would love to see the detail
Thanks
The above glosses over the absolute open door to the EU, and to the fact that the EU is taking control of all aspects of immigration to all its member states from the rest of the world.
JR: “In view of the great interest in this issue in recent days, ”
Doesn’t it make you sick to be part of such a cynical organization as the Tory Party?
In opposition for eleven years a new leader for four years, and by coincidence just after an appearance of the leader of the BNP on question time, the Tories get an immigration policy.
I haven’t laughed so much in ages.
Reply: Nonsense. This has been the policy for sometime – the news background has provided an opportunity to get people listening to it again.
Furthermore, the Conservatives would like to point out that—whilst the BNP’s fear of immigration is bad—our fear of immigration is entirely good.
Additionally, the Conservative Party would like to make it absolutely clear that not only are we going to continue with NuLabour’s draconian and inhumane immigration policies, but we are also going to make them even harsher and even more inhumane.
Not only this but, in accordance with NuLabour’s attitude over the last few years, we are going to disproportionately punish those from non-EU countries—many of whom share a common legal and cultural bond with the British—and continue to ignore the elephant in the room which is the unfettered immigration from the EU.
A plague on all your houses.
DK
Frankly, I found Damien Green’s statement disappointing. I read it several times looking for some concrete details of the limits on immigration that a Conservative government would impose but drew a blank. Nor was there any indication of sustainable population figures. Recently, we have had the hoo-ha of Griffin’s appearance on Question Time, a prediction that the UK population is on track to reach 70million in twenty years and the disclosure from Andrew Neather, a former speechwriter for Tony Blair and Home Office adviser, that Labour had deliberately relaxed controls and employed a policy of mass immigration to encourage multiculturism in the UK. Given all that, I should have thought and hoped that the Conservatives would by now have a better defined prescription for dealing with this issue. I’m afraid that you and your colleagues must try harder if you hope to be regarded as seriously determined to deal with immigration and population control.
Errrem, what about the illegal immigrants already here?
Good so far as it goes. I especially approve point 3 on integration.
I do wonder though how we are to regain control of our borders with the mass of human rights legislation and an activist judiciary here and in Strasbourg. Any solution for that?
Opinions are more important here than perceptions. The BNP’s serenading of the white working class works because they think all immigrants are competing for their jobs (or their hand-outs). I doubt this is true; many immigrants come from the middle classes of their home countries, and they only compete in housing (they start out at the cheap end). An emphasis on attracting only academically qualified immigrants might serve to shoot the BNP fox?
Conversely, are asylum seekers still barred from legal employment? This scandalous waste should be repealed p.d.q., but then the BNP, whom we’re all totally obsessed about at the moment….
zzzzzzzzzz…….
You might also consider enforcing the existing immigration laws.
I used to work in the UK work for an Indian IT firm. Three Brits, one American and several hundred Indians, all of whom were intelligent, well educated and extraordinarily hard working. The Indians invariably did a good job for the firm’s clients.
All of the Indian staff entered the UK using intra company transfer visas. Not one of them had to go through the government’s much heralded points based system to obtain permission to work.
On being deployed to the company’s client, a large telecommunications company, I couldn’t help noticing that nearly all of the staff were Indian. Indeed, the company was in the middle of a redundancy programme to lay off British staff as fast as they could print the P45s.
There are two reasons for this. Firstly, the Indians work tax free. Their employing agency is based in India and so pays neither corporation tax, employer’s national insurance nor VAT.
In addition, the individual Indian workers were all granted a dispensation by HMRC so they paid no income tax or national insurance either. The Indians therefore cost about half as much as a tax paying Brit for any given level of take home pay.
The second reason is that the Indian workers, being employed by a foreign company, were exempt from UK employment law. Female employee gets pregnant? She’s fired. I know of one who collapsed because he was forced to work a 50 hour shift and I know of two who were fired for trying to join a trade union.
There is a shiny shilling for anybody who can explain Labour’s motivation for making UK workers effectively unemployable during a recession.
This is a start – and it is good to see the concerns of British workers, who have been short changed on education and training and by a benefits system that traps them in unemployment, being addressed as part of the policy: that is some joined up thinking that is very necessary.
However, this only addresses economic migrants – and even there an indication of the level of the cap is missing – I’ll open the bidding at balanced migration. Nor does it address how long economic migrants may stay and whether that entitles them to citizenship. How about students? Carswell asked a question in the House about how many overstay after their courses, but failed to suggest any measures to deal with the problem. How about tightening up the visa regime to reduce fraudulently obtained visas for sham students and sham marriages, and to exclude more undesirables before they get here? How about adopting US style measures requiring visitors with no right of abode to have onward travel arrangements before they enter the country?
Currently, many migrants seeking to come here seem to find France an unacceptable country to live in, yet as far as I know France is not being hauled daily before the EU court on human rights breaches in consequence. Perhaps we should seek to treat migrants no more favourably than the French do. Entitlements to benefits need to be re-examined, and also rights to work (e.g. why are spouses not permitted to work for their first year here? Should students moonlight?).
The Dutch made their language a formal requirement for new immigrants (even short term ones) several years ago. But a pass at a language exam doesn’t prevent a new immigrant from simply living in a ghetto of their own nationals, and never integrating in wider society. That requires an attitude of mind – something that is easier to assess than to define, and that once upon a time might have fallen to the judgement of a consul. Requiring such judgements might of itself provide a cap on numbers.
Also there is the question of what to do about current illegal immigration.
Nothing in your post mentions anything about existing illegal immigration which leads me to suspect that you are going to implement an amnesty.
The 2001 UK Census recorded 88,378 Nigerian-born people resident in the UK.[4] More recent estimates by the Office for National Statistics put the figure at 140,000 in 2008.[8]
A Council of Europe report gives a figure of 100,000 Nigerians in the UK but suggests that number should be multiplied 3 to 8 times since it does not include irregular migrants or children.[9] Meanwhile, in its country profile for Nigeria, the British Foreign Office states that the Nigerian community in the UK has between 800,000 and 3 million members.[10]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigerian_British
This is just one example of illegal immigration. The home office is indicating it’s got the figures wrong by a minumum factor of 8. Since most of these will be low skilled (on the illegal side) they compete and force other people onto benefits increasing the cost to the UK.
Clearing out illegal immigration means more jobs for people on the dole.
Nick
I think you’ve missed the boat with EU migrants. I used to share housing with a couple of Slovakians, they’ve both gone home now due to the recovery of their economy (in terms of what they can earn now compared to 5 years ago) the fact they always wanted to go home and the collapse of the pound helped seal it.
My experiences with Pole/Slovaks (and I’ve shared housing with a few) is that most of them want to return to their home nation. When they were first allowed here there was mass unemployment at home and the most they could expect to earn there (despite being hard working intelligent people interested in world affairs) was about 200 Euros a month. Now it’s more like 600.
Thank you for your response, I had also noticed that as of yesterday you had more responses(38) on this issue than any other in recent times. It was pleasing to see how sensible and practical most of them were.
But a policy is only half the game it requires leadership to sell it confidently to the public. It requires not merely the support of the shadow minister but the clear and committed suport of the shadow Prime Minister. Presented properly and responsibly it will destroy much of Ukip’s voter base and encourage many BNP supporters to stay at home. But I, and I suspect many other conservative supporters believe that David Cameron simply doesn’t have the leadership qualities to take this issue on.
If Cameron can at last summon up the nerve and sense to back this policy firmly and give us a vote on Lisbon he is home and hosed. But I doubt it, his fatal mistake was to rehabilitate the fossilised man of the past Kenneth Clark.
I still hold the view that David Cameron is too weak to win, simply because he always offers words never actions. I hope I am wrong.
I wonder what criteria will be used to select those who may immigrate legally, and those who are to be refused entry. Is it just a numbers game or will other factors be considered eg what are the relative chances of a Somali as against an Australian?
I posted on this website a few days ago on this subject. I am sorry but this is not good enough to make me want to vote Conservative. You need to be firmer. Also when I saw Green on QT some time ago my heart sank as I came away with the impression that he is a complete drip.
Speak for England and spell it out in straightforward words.
Your topic raises a number of issues.
If we are to attempt to control immigration to this Country we must have COMPLETE control over our own borders, and our own policy of who we let in and who we do not.
That means who we let in from ANYWHERE. It means we cannot allow the EU or anyone else to arrange quota’s for us, then enlarge the EU, and so thus increase our quota’s automatically.
Immigrants come here for benefits. This may be true in some cases, it may be not in others. One thing is for sure, they travel through many other friendly Countries before they even get to the UK.
We have to ask why if it is not for benefits, why is it, surely it is not for the weather, or cheap to purchase housing.
A number of Bloggers have asked the question, what are the benefit rights of a new immigrant to this Country. It would appear no one is sure, but it is thought that a range of benefits are available, as is some form of subsidy for housing. Is this true ? The French Politicians seem to think so from interviews I have seen on TV.
If so then we need to reorganise our affairs so that we do not attract people who are simply seeking benefits, if not true then we need to publish the exact situation.
The problem here is that the benefits and tax systems are now so complicated, that it would seem very few are aware as to the exact situation.
If illegal immigrants are stopped at entry, then they should be returned the very same day from where they came, its simple, no passport no entry. Not allowed in to escape the system enter the black market of work, whilst we investigate for years, find they are illegal but then cannot find then to send them back.
Refugees. I have long argued that we should not be sending our young men over to their Country at great personal, and financial cost, to fight for their freedom in their Country, when they (of fit and fighting age) are escaping to ours.
The fact of the matter is that for the past 10 years our immigration policy has been a disaster, it feeds people like the BNP, it screws the lower paid working policy, where so many seem to be working outside the system, it screws the education and health services budget forecasts (based on original population census) it creates a shortage of housing, as the number of new houses being built is lower than the growth in population.
The fact of the matter is we are one of the most densely populated Countries on the planet (recent surveys have shown) so inevitably we will suffer more housing shortages, as we do grow more land.
We will suffer more transport congestion as more people need to move about, and given that that most traffic management control sysytems seem to want to obstruct (chicanes, humps, road narrowing, tolls etc) we are already now going at a slower average speed in City’s, than we were by horse drawn transport of decades ago.
So where do we go from here, well at last we are starting to talk about the problem, which is a start, we now need to think of WORKABLE solutions.
The main political party’s HAVE A DUTY to resolve this issue, if they do not, then I suggest frustration may grow and this frustration may turn to anger, which is no good for anyone.
Sorry, should read we do NOT grow more land.
A trickle of immigration is good, a flood is bad. Its not a question of principle at all, it is only one of scale.
One family (of a different kind-ed)in a village adds colour and variety. !00 families (of a different kind ed)is a sinister,(and other adjectives ed) presence. A govt budget deficit is often of benefit. Too big a deficit is a disaster. These issues are also not of principle, but exclusively of scale.
To pretend that the govt’s ‘points system’ or the tory’s proposed ‘cap’ are even part answers is disingenuous. Until we have border controls, they are a waste of breath and time. And we can’t have effective border controls ’til we leave the EU…..
One of the defining legacies this government leaves behind is a population now more racist than when it assumed power.
The idea that you can force multiculturalism down the throats of a tolerant electorate by opening the floodgates of immigration was wrong.
Conservatives now have to deal with a fairly intolerant electorate and its current policies simply do not recognise the extent of the problem it now has to deal with.
The rise or otherwise in the fortunes of the BNP will however provide an accurate guide
Now here’s the rub.
I teach a girl in Year 9 at the local Church. She is Polish and cannot speak English after an expensive (for us) year at the local Comprehensive. She is, of course, dumped in the “special” stream.
What happens to her?
Then there are three West Africans who say they are Portuguese. They are obviously Muslim and very keen to settle here. I like all three of them. They are full of fun and laughter. Everyone (except the Portuguese) enjoys their company.
What happens to them?
My son lives in Bangkok. He has a colleague who is gay and who has a Thai boyfriend. When he comes to UK, his boyfriend (like Lord Mandelson’s boyfriend) insists on coming too.
What happens to them?
Re “At what point do new immigrants become eligible for benefits?” its normally once you attain “indefinite leave to remain” which in the case of a non European marrying a Brit normally happens around 2 years after the wedding
Many folk with indefinite leave to remain never bother to get British citizenship which they can have after a further few years, for a combination of reasons, maybe their country of origin doesnt allow dual nationality and they want to retain the flexibility to go back at some point – maybe to retire (just like lots of Brits in New Zealand attain permanent residency but never give up their British passport etc)
I actually think the system is scewed the wrong way in terms of things like family allowance, a couple having a baby before the wife has attained indefinite leave to remain can end up having a baby with a British passport paying full amounts of tax and NI and yet not being able to get family allowance
However I will repeat my view that the widespread abuse of Inter Company Transfer visas is the biggest problem, anyone can setup an international company and bring anyone in using these, generally massively undercutting the native workforce
I am a member of the BNP, along with many, many other ex-Conservative votors and activists. Why? Because for far too long the Tories spoke (still do) with forked tongue about Europe and immigration. Let us not forget that it was Heath The Traitor that took us into Europe and Mrs Thatcher that backed up the decision, with the connivance of Her Majesty The Queen breaking her Oath of Allegiance on no less than five occasions. (The Queen is a constitutional monarch who does as Parliament wishes -ed)
Nowhere do we ever see mention of this by the Tories!!! So how does John now expect us to believe a single word he says?
Actually I am getting very fed up of the right wing slinging around left-wing Trotskyist/Stalinist epithets of “racist” at people who simply have the interests of the indigenous people at heart along with their culture. Other countries are applauded when the look after their culture and their Church – the English on the other hand are called “racists” and “islamophobics” when they try to do the same. In the BNP we dare to talk openly about immigration and the ills of deluging our culture. The other parties are in a continual state of denial that there are issues like that silly person the other night who said there were “no bogus asylum seekers”, ffs!
(words left out) Call us what you like but we will not go away until this country is saved from the Socialist Fascist Left and they are punished for the treason they have brought upon our once-great nation.
Re ” An emphasis on attracting only academically qualified immigrants” not at all the Migration Advisory Committee already says “A separate scheme is created for graduates only which would require 3 months prior experience” etc, one of the many problems with this is that the quality of some of the colleges which have made the folk coming here “graduates” are seriously wanting, and another being that there are plenty of equvalent UK grads looking for work – many having recently escaped from the underclass
Morning Chaps,
Have you seen Melanie Philips’s articles in the Mail & Spectator?
links:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1222977/MELANIE-PHILLIPS-The-outrageous-truth-slips-Labour-cynically-plotted-transform-entire-make-Britain-telling-us.html
http://www.spectator.co.uk/melaniephillips/5475511/trying-to-stuff-the-cat-back-into-the-bag.thtml
Time for the Conservatives to go for Liebour’s jugular me thinks.
Mike.
on a personal level they are all great people.
but apply migration rules properly and consistantly and all will be better off.
how about a £30k charge on all new entrants .. like the non-doms pay ?
I would have liked to see something about repatriation of the illegal immigrants Baronwss Waesi says don’t exist. Also of conbicted criminals. Akso while having a limit is fair some idea of what it will be is useful. Also I would like to see the right of spouses to move here ended – forced marriage, often cousin marriage, continues because this loophole exists.
Since, courtesy of Andrew Neather, we know that Labour have deliberately encouraged mass immigration, against the wishes & interests of their own natural supporters, to “elect a new people” it seems unlikely any self respecting person will vote for them if a real alternative is presented.
Under international law asylum seekers must apply for asylum in the first country they arrive in after crossing their own borders. Therefore 99% of them are bogusWhy not just stick to the law and refuse these bogus asylum seekers without appeal of any kind and send them straight back home.
As well stated here the policy is not up to the job.
The argument is not purely economic – England is too crowded and the quality of life is declining day by day.
Any policy needs to take a wider view – we cannot take any more people (from anywhere) and a moratorium on entry should be put in place for at least 2 years until the situation becomes clearer and the backlog of cases handled and new entitlement rules developed.
If the Cons won’t tackle the EU on membership surely this is one they should go head to head on – lets get some control back. Don’t paythe levy if they don’t listen!!
The statement made is Labourlike and will undoubtedly not be honoured post the election.
On the abuse of marriage rules to bring in other nationals, I would implement a rule along the lines of if one of your parents was born outside Europe and was allowed in through marriage then you must go through a whole lot more hoops to bring a partner in through marriage
Having a foreign wife myself I don’t think it’s reasonable to stop individuals randomly meeting a foreigner, genuinely falling in love, and marrying
I do however think its reasonable that in about 50% of cases they should be expected to live in the other country, and not all coming here
And such a rule, if one of your parents was born outside Europe and was allowed in through marriage then you must go through a whole lot more hoops to bring a partner in through marriage, would at least expose those parts of the community that are just using marriage to systematically move 3rd world populations here
This Conservative statement is so much better than what goes on at the moment that I must give it two cheers. However, …….
“We plan to introduce an explicit annual limit on the numbers of non-EU economic migrants”. What is the magic number and what will be the quotas for each country. The American Green Card system is operated with quotas by country of origin, even if they don’t announce them.
How many Romanian and Hungarian Roma (EU citizens) do we want to admit, even with a one hundred year transition period?
Then there is the policy on spouses. We will never get a grip on immigration until the automatic right of entry for spouses ceases. There is no limit to the number of arranged marriages.
Mr Redwood, like the entire political establishment you seem to miss the whole point with regard to migration. The biggest problem we have is not asylum seekers, its not even illegals. It is legal migration from the new EU member states. All the propaganda that is put about, that the former soviet countries are improving financially is complete rubbish. Things are far worse now in eastern europe than they were under communism. I have worked in these countries since the fall of the Berlin wall and can assure you that things are far worse for them now. I live in Northampton which has one of the highest eastern european migration in the UK. In just a few years the town centre is unrecognisable. A visit to the doctors, dentist, hospital, police station or school and you will see the ….. impact these people are having on the finances of the state. As for those saying that large amounts of imigrants are returning. This to is pure rubbish. However bad thing get here in the UK it is impossible for things to be as bad as the countries of eastern europe. Their citizens know this and thats why they are staying. More people live below the breadline than ever before in these their home countries. There are no jobs and their economies are destroyed. It will take generations for them to get anywhere near the standard of living enjoyed by western europe. Untill things change at home these people will continue to come here and will continue to be net contributors. (words left out )
Reply: Don’t blame me or my party. We negotiated an opt out from common borders which Blair gave away. I don’t think you are right today re the numbers. There are far fewer new migrants from Eastern Europe now. Nor do I agree they are now worse off than under communism.
Mr Green will achieve nothing unless he recognises that the bulk of immigration is not under government control, whatever its policies.
There are no effective controls on immigration: a few valuable workers can be admitted by discretion of the authorities, but the majority enter as of right by virtue of international obligation. Conventions on Refugees (asylum) and Human Rights (family) and EU treaties (freedom of movement) have made our borders porous.
Running a welfare state for all comers is no longer feasible. Legislation establishing entitlement to services, whether under the NHS, local authority, housing, education, social services and benefits Acts all preceded significant immigration, and apart from the occassional regulation seeking to introduce charges to overseas visitors, has not comprehensively dealt with this issue.
The proposed Bill of Rights needs a simple statement that only citizens may benefit from public services as of right.
Attracting people to work here illegally, because of the effect on the local population of the minimum wage and of welfare benefits, is also not sustainable. So there needs to be time limits on unemployment and incapacity benefits.
Building more social housing to accommodate new arrivals is not compatible with preserving the environment or the culture. So there needs to be more temporary work/study permits with enforced departure at termination.
But withdrawal from the Conventions and restoration of EU opt-outs are crucial.
I didnt mean to give the wrong impression. I absolutely don’t blame Conservatives for this open border policy. Unfortunately it is a fact that more new-EU citizens live below the poverty line now than under communism, this is because the social safety net previously provided by their states has been removed. That is why Britain and all it offers is so attractive. Lack of employment, low state benefits, high prices and fiscal instability in these countries are all contributors to this. It also seems that despite the state of the UK economy, levels of migration will increase until conditions in migrants home countries improve to western European standards. Afterall if you do a direct comparison with state benefits and public services offered in the UK with any new-EU member state there is a dramatic difference. Where would anyone rather be unemployed or bringing up a child, Britain or in the ex-soviet block? Not difficult to figure where. I would rather trust what Migration Watch say about this than the line spun by this government.
Ray Miller: “It will take generations for them [Eastern Europeans] to get anywhere near the standard of living enjoyed by western europe.”
Or rather sooner?
http://europa.eu/abc/keyfigures/qualityoflife/wealthy/index_en.htm
(In case some of you think this is just wicked EU propaganda, an alternative source is the CIA Factbook)
Sort out the welfare system and the problem will sort itself out.
Same applies to single mothers.
Sorry SJB, as someone who has lived, worked, has family and friends all over eastern europe, i can see what things are like on the ground and hear first hand from all levels of society. I don’t believe a word of these stats, its all PR, spin and propaganda. Take poor old Hungary for example, its a complete basket case, and scarily like Weimar, its finances are on a par with iceland. The poverty in Romania and Bulgaria is tragic. And something you wont read as part of any demographic projection is that Poland has one of the worst black markets in the developed world, which is the only way many of it citizens can keep alive. The only exposure most westerners have to the east is a few days in Prague or Budapest on a stag night. If the policy makers decisions on migration really want to be taken seriously they should go and spend some time, i mean, weeks and months living in the suburbs and countryside of these countries. Then they can talk with authority and maybe get some respect.
I’m impressed. The policy is very well balanced, thought out and even handed. I hope you put it into action as a priority when you win power next year.
I have always voted Labour. However, i am never going to do so again, having read the Andrew Neather leaks this week (another commentator has already quoted here).
The Government have played political games with this countries future, and possibly compromised the quality of life for future generations by fostering this immigration based population explosion, and it’s inevitable demand on resources.
Unforgivable.
I am not a BNP member but I agree with with Nick Chance that people including Conservatives are using words too easily particularly ‘racist’ .This is also loosely used by Labour people because it suits them to misrepresent what are legitimate concerns of so many about people who come here and think they can turn it into the country they left and didn’t choose to stay in. Its not about skin colour or ethnicity AT ALL. It is about Culture -we should remain British Islands English and Scotch and Welsh and Irish peoples and people who choose to come and live here should adopt with of course individual differences that are acceptable (words left out-ed) Then together with integration two things go hand in hand. We have enough that we can integrate now already and secondly Postive Discrimination against indigenous people here must stop in jobs housing and everything else. We need Town Planning Regulations that ensure we preserve the character of a European culture whether it be English or the other national lands in the union and not taken over so that the character is completely changed.In some areas we are past the point of no return. (sentence left out-ed)
I would have welcomed a question on the Neather revelations at today’s PMQs.
An illegal immigrant is exactly that. Illegal and unless you want to live in a police state immigrants cannot be physically stopped from coming into this country. How do you stop an intelligent fit eighteen year old from entering Britain? You can’t and would it be wise to do so?
Why are they coming here? Welfare? To easy, though some must do, but the reality is that they are entitled to very little. Your mate of a mate story is exactly that, an urban myth.
Most come here for work because in Britain a large black economy exists with millions illegally employed putting British workers out of a job and being exploited by employers paying below the minimum wage. If a business cannot pay the minimum wage then it is not viable and of no use to the country or the employee.
The main thing to be done then is a crack down on illegal employers not paying legal wages, then there would be no reason to come to Britain. Unless you want to live five to a room/car and eat as cheaply as possible that is. Many do and this is what employers like. A desperate supply of workers.
If you offered job for a bricklayer paying £50 an hour you would have to many bricklayers proving that it is not a shortage of skilled labour, but a shortage of money. The new term for East European is NMW. (National Minimum Wage) To circumvent any laws. Problem is that people can only live like tramps for so long and so a supply of desperadoes is needed.
More workers for the Fatherland then Nick Griffin and other right wing supporters? Maybe we could have minimum wage camps where after a hard days graft at the curry face they can all be forced to return Huh? Failing that, we could all just subcontract out our jobs to anyone daft and desperate enough to work for us while we stop at home complaining that you just can’t get the staff these days. Which ain’t far from the truth.
I couldn’t believe our old friend Patricia Hewitt asking a question at PMQ’s about our relationship with India with reference to the visit to the UK by the Indian head of state
1 She is a director of BT
2 BT is one of the major prime contractors for NHS IT programmes, which have been a resounding failure, she is a director immediately after being secretary of state for health
3 BT are one of the biggest users of Indian nationals in this country to displace their UK workforce,…… and brought in on inter company transfer visas
4 BT are also responsible for pushing to displace other European workers both by moving their jobs overseas but also by replacing them with Indian nationals here on Inter Company Transfer visas
(Shouldn’t Mrs Hewitt have declared an interest? ed)
Reply: Mrs H does not appear to have been pursuing a business interest by asking a general question.
All fine and good, but what about the other “more than equal” (group -ed), the gypsies?
How are you going to create a Border Police Force – the police can’t do anything on a national basis – all you’ll do is create silo working with an ACPO office in the middle that has no power to do anything.
Like now.
Put the emphasis back on Immigration Officers at the border and inland making the decisions and stop the current customs takeover of our immigration controls that is effectively ignoring immigration work in favour of seizing fags and booze.
Mr Neathers revealations came as no surprise to me I’ve long held the believe that immigration was to destroy the Nation state and National Identity.
Former Soviet dissident Vladimir Bukovsky stated so publically.
This is Treachery of unimaginable proportions carried out against the British people, it is an absolute disgrace, yet barely a mention.
Basically Redwood isn’t going to do anything about immigration. Accepting core British values? What are these then?
What the hell anyway. The sooner the English become a minority in their own country the better.
The EU is the SINGLE LARGEST source of immigration, followed by the Commonwealth, and then the rest of the world. So your policy is already a joke.
Why is your ability to enter the country determined solely by the fact that you grew up in a white, Christian country?
Nobody seems to address the problem of removing failed asylum seekers. You just can’t have a credible policy on this without answering the point. If failed asylum seekers are not removed effectively and efficiently there is no immigration policy worthy of examination.
The answer is not easy, but I see no alternative. We need to come to an agreement with a foreign government to resolve the matter. We would build and pay for detention centres abroad. They would be manned and operated humanely by a local workforce paid by the British government. Failed asylum seekers, with or without papers would stay abroad in detention until they decided to go home, and were so received.
Detention in the U.K. simply isn’t effective. But if you were taken to a third world nation that would be an effective deterrent. It would also benefit our partner nation in the matter.
Nothing can be done without real political power…so get in power first and publish some real facts to confirm what our eyes tell us, after public enquiries.
Follow the money, who benefits and benefited, who loses?
In the short and long term. Fat chance with this government.
How much capital follows the immigrants into the UK and how much flows out from emmigrants and where?
From that follows a host of planning issues. Yes plans based on fact and with competent people who understand economic cycles and can count debt properly.
Who gained?
Surely employers gain.. more choice less pay inflation in the good times. The taxpayer picks up the tab if the economy cools.
Those using service industries gained, those with cleaners and maids (legal or otherwise).
Who gains from population increases? Well GDP probably goes up but not per capita.
Who lost? thats a difficult one to address isnt it?
The new immigrant sometimes? or other areas of the already resident population?
Fancy a minimum wage job with little benefit to working because of labour competition and the system.
How can any MP/Lord Senior Quangocrat really get it and know from a ‘bubble land’ of expenses and hubris.
…and that is without considering any Political angle on voting demographics.
Politicians (as a group) are what they are.. if there is a rule it seems the only questions is how do i get around it to benefit me (profound apologies to those who do not and take offence non was intended to those who made efforts to clean house).
I fear the only reason was political dogma and belief it may help one political party or to further a supranational authority.
Hold a referendum on the EU immediately.Bring in laws to protect the UK from attempts to change the ‘electorate’ in marginal areas.
On migration:
We should be focusing on sustainability of population, food, power,water from within the UK and in cooperation with other rational countries.
The EU/UN should concern themselves with the reasons why mass migration occurs and promote policies to promote sustainability in those countries to mitigate it.
Does it make sense to help only those that make it here or address the issues with the countries regions concerned.
How much initial state funding per migrant has been incurred in the initial year? This should not be narrowly defined as just benefit entitlement but should mean all and any funds which are expended by any means quango or state funded charity.
The problem is we expect competence and courage from an incompetent and cowardly government. Who never face any consequence of their incompetence until many years later.
This (uncontrolled immigration) is the subject keeping the average Brit awake at night.
There appears to be no mention of a serious points system like those that Australia or Canada operate. And why are we getting this from Damien Green and not David Cameron himself ?
Let’s take a current issue; the postal dispute. Why is the multi-millionaire Adam Crozier able to dictate to post workers on 250 quid a week that they must work harder for less ? Because of our open immigration policy – undertaken by our politicians in utter defiance of majority belief. This undermines nearly every working person in the UK. What is the point of a minimum wage if it is undercut via the black market ?
No wonder Brown is fretting about keeping the housing bubble going. And why he has resorted to the printing presses. He knows we’re going to start smashing the place up if depression takes hold.
This answer – in view of Tory impotence during Labour rule and the signing of Maastricht – is simply not good enough, John.
just read all these coments and you article labour just sold us down the swanie,, the straw man who ought to go to the wizard and get a new brain,,as he said the english is a race not worth saving, well my grandaughters are worth saving,,none of you”s like your own people,,or you lot would never had let this happen in the first place,,,all of you”s kept scarring us by calling us racist which i am sure we are not otherwise we wouldnt have been so tolerent..but i will be voteing BNP…because when you get in your not going to do anything..you all retract on everything you all say…just like cameron on the lisbon treaty…you have all feathered your on nest..i am all right jack
I have seen so many figures on immigration and I don’t believe anyone knows what is really going on. I don’t think there is any political will to sort this out either. I fear this will be a battle that will be undertaken by my children or grandchildren, the full impact will be apparent in 20/30 years time. I think immigration is much higher than stats say, you only have to walk into a doctors or around the streets in London, Manchester and Birmingham to deduce there are more migrants that 500,000! This can have serious inpact on our culture and value system. Democracy overtaken by dictatorship by the vote. Mr Redwood, Ihave been very niave, I grew up under Thatcher in the North of England and hated her and you I might add, so I have always voted Labour. I didn’t realise this is what I was getting and I did not vote for this. Please will you pressure the Tories to be a viable opposition and dramatic change to Labour and sort this country out. They have created issues that were not there 15 years ago! If the Tories don’t stop with fluff and bluster speaches like labour, then I think many people will turn to UKIP and BNP. This is a prime time for the Tories to secure many voters who would never have voted for them in the past.
Mr Redwood, I forgot to say, growing up in the North of England, I was brought up anti Tory. I now thank Thatcher, if it wasn’t for her raising aspiration levels, I would have worked in the local factory or been unemployed. Her actions bore fruit many years after she made changes and they benefited me Labours will bear fruit over the coming decades and I am scared!
To that man Bob who stated that we should sort out single mothers…. I am fed up of hearing that! Why not sort out single, young guys who claim? Hard to do now there are few jobs, but to keep blaming single mums is stupid, we are human animals who are meant to breed! Sorting out the absent fathers and single men would be more legitimate than picking on a women with a pram…. Has anyone got stats of the men under 30 claiming? Women suffer terrible descrimination in the work place, look how many sucessful women there are in the city of London (very few!). What do you want these women to do. When equality happens we can then discuss this, until then leave women alone! I am not a single mum by the way
Re “Why not sort out single, young guys who claim?” sadly young single guys are the bottom of every list, and far too often end up sleeping rough under bridges, not for them the lifestyle choice of having a kid (often without the father knowing) in order to be given state funded housing
its especially bad for a single bloke who has worked and paid into the system for many years who finds himself in trouble, maybe his industry collapses or he suffers mental illness, far too often they end up sleeping rough in this country
if there is any category of person this country lets down big time its single blokes who find themselfs in bad times
look at the world through the eyes of a male born and brought up on one of our worst underclass estates sent to a terrible school, its not nice and there are not many positive ways of looking at what they suffer
Non-EU inmigrants (the so called “economic inmigrants”) have no right to benefits. In our work permit there is abig note that reads “NO RECOURSE TU PUBLIC FUNDS”.
Inmigrants are entilted to benefits only after they are granted the right of settlemen, which currently takes at least five years.