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	<title>Comments on: Good and bad environmentalism</title>
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	<link>http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/11/06/good-and-bad-environmentalism/</link>
	<description>Conservative Party Candidate for Wokingham</description>
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		<title>By: waramess</title>
		<link>http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/11/06/good-and-bad-environmentalism/#comment-48866</link>
		<dc:creator>waramess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 16:07:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=4901#comment-48866</guid>
		<description>BillyB what a great idea. No more Nuclear would be best because we still have no definitive idea of what we might do with spent fuel.

Coal should be our future but politicians have now commited themselves to the flawed science of global warming and so we mess up yet again</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BillyB what a great idea. No more Nuclear would be best because we still have no definitive idea of what we might do with spent fuel.</p>
<p>Coal should be our future but politicians have now commited themselves to the flawed science of global warming and so we mess up yet again</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/11/06/good-and-bad-environmentalism/#comment-48793</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 15:14:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=4901#comment-48793</guid>
		<description>A Green global migration policy would only permit migration from higher per capita energy consuming countries to lower consumers.  Thus, only Qataris would be permitted to migrate to the country of their choice.  The perverse influence would be that a country would have an incentive to increase energy consumption to stem migration inflows and give its citizens a wider choice of migration destinations (i.e. to develop their economies), while low energy consumers would only be popular destination with true Greens who prefer a Stone Age existence.  Now that sounds strangely appealing...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A Green global migration policy would only permit migration from higher per capita energy consuming countries to lower consumers.  Thus, only Qataris would be permitted to migrate to the country of their choice.  The perverse influence would be that a country would have an incentive to increase energy consumption to stem migration inflows and give its citizens a wider choice of migration destinations (i.e. to develop their economies), while low energy consumers would only be popular destination with true Greens who prefer a Stone Age existence.  Now that sounds strangely appealing&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Adrian Peirson</title>
		<link>http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/11/06/good-and-bad-environmentalism/#comment-48766</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrian Peirson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 04:46:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=4901#comment-48766</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m sorry, I&#039;m with Gordon and Al Gore on this one, the best way to reduce emmissions is through mass mass mass immigration then tax the lot of em till the pips squeek.

Heaven help us.

I keep trying to find new ways to let people know what is really going on, here&#039;s my latest.

Imagine yourself in 16th century Britain riding through the countryside in a coach, when your coach is suddenly stopped by that Famous highwayman, Dick McTurpin.....hand over your money he demands, why should we you shout in response to which he replies....well it&#039;s to help combat global warming, to save poor african children and to save the lives of baby polar bears who have nowhere to live because the north pole has melted.


If CO2 levels were a problem, would a better ploy be to shut the borders and plant Billions of trees to soak it all up.

But no, they want the UK&#039;s population to go up to 100 Million, it&#039;s a Tax scam, it&#039;s simple theft....The emperor really is naked.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m sorry, I&#8217;m with Gordon and Al Gore on this one, the best way to reduce emmissions is through mass mass mass immigration then tax the lot of em till the pips squeek.</p>
<p>Heaven help us.</p>
<p>I keep trying to find new ways to let people know what is really going on, here&#8217;s my latest.</p>
<p>Imagine yourself in 16th century Britain riding through the countryside in a coach, when your coach is suddenly stopped by that Famous highwayman, Dick McTurpin&#8230;..hand over your money he demands, why should we you shout in response to which he replies&#8230;.well it&#8217;s to help combat global warming, to save poor african children and to save the lives of baby polar bears who have nowhere to live because the north pole has melted.</p>
<p>If CO2 levels were a problem, would a better ploy be to shut the borders and plant Billions of trees to soak it all up.</p>
<p>But no, they want the UK&#8217;s population to go up to 100 Million, it&#8217;s a Tax scam, it&#8217;s simple theft&#8230;.The emperor really is naked.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Reynolds</title>
		<link>http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/11/06/good-and-bad-environmentalism/#comment-48723</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Reynolds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Nov 2009 10:19:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=4901#comment-48723</guid>
		<description>As we see with the M&amp;S bag charging policy that Big Government is not needed to improve the environment. By charging 5p for cake &amp; carrier bags usage has declined by about 80% while £100,000 a month in profits from that charge goes to the green charity Groundwork UK. That cuts Co2 down as fewer bags need producing,lessens litter as a blight and helps stop marine life being killed.The £100,000 a month to that fine green charity helps improve deprived areas by regenerating them in an environmentally sound way.

Did Marks &amp; Spencer need government regulation to do that sound green thing ? No it did not !

This proves that you can help the environment without dictates from the man in Whitehall.In fact a poll done by M&amp;S asked its customers whether or not they should take action on matters on issues of social justice &amp; environmental importance.The result was overwhelmingly positive and so Plan A was launched !

Plan A chimes with the kind of common-sense Green Capitalism that John is trumpeting on this well written and first class blog.This is a progressive way of ensuring future prosperity is kinder to the planet.

This is the sound approach of David Cameron and proves that if you want Britain to go Green then you have to vote Blue !</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As we see with the M&amp;S bag charging policy that Big Government is not needed to improve the environment. By charging 5p for cake &amp; carrier bags usage has declined by about 80% while £100,000 a month in profits from that charge goes to the green charity Groundwork UK. That cuts Co2 down as fewer bags need producing,lessens litter as a blight and helps stop marine life being killed.The £100,000 a month to that fine green charity helps improve deprived areas by regenerating them in an environmentally sound way.</p>
<p>Did Marks &amp; Spencer need government regulation to do that sound green thing ? No it did not !</p>
<p>This proves that you can help the environment without dictates from the man in Whitehall.In fact a poll done by M&amp;S asked its customers whether or not they should take action on matters on issues of social justice &amp; environmental importance.The result was overwhelmingly positive and so Plan A was launched !</p>
<p>Plan A chimes with the kind of common-sense Green Capitalism that John is trumpeting on this well written and first class blog.This is a progressive way of ensuring future prosperity is kinder to the planet.</p>
<p>This is the sound approach of David Cameron and proves that if you want Britain to go Green then you have to vote Blue !</p>
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		<title>By: Bazman</title>
		<link>http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/11/06/good-and-bad-environmentalism/#comment-48721</link>
		<dc:creator>Bazman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Nov 2009 09:58:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=4901#comment-48721</guid>
		<description>Sign an deal with Russia for the next fifty years to buy oil/gas nuclear expertise. Saved the world, got the girl, Champagne on ice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sign an deal with Russia for the next fifty years to buy oil/gas nuclear expertise. Saved the world, got the girl, Champagne on ice.</p>
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		<title>By: Acorn</title>
		<link>http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/11/06/good-and-bad-environmentalism/#comment-48720</link>
		<dc:creator>Acorn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Nov 2009 08:50:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=4901#comment-48720</guid>
		<description>To Marl at 1:04.
Nicely put Mark, there are a couple of technical points we could argue over a beer. 100% back-up for wind, NGC stats are showing it can be a bit less than that.  But, your wind argument is fundamentally correct.  Even the Danes are admitting they actually save very little CO2.  Anyway, a ROC and a half for offshore megawatt hours is a very nice little earner.

If Redwoodians want to see where your gas and electric are coming from have a look at the following. 

http://www.nationalgrid.com/uk/Gas/Data/EFD/ 

http://www.bmreports.com/bsp/bsp_home.htm 

You will see from the graphs that coal is now doing what we old hands call &quot;two shifting&quot; through the night.  It was the heavy oil plants a decade or so back.

You will see the very small contribution wind is making; but these are grid connected / metered wind farms; there are a lot more connected to lower voltage systems.

I think Mark would agree.  You should start worrying about what you see on these sites.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To Marl at 1:04.<br />
Nicely put Mark, there are a couple of technical points we could argue over a beer. 100% back-up for wind, NGC stats are showing it can be a bit less than that.  But, your wind argument is fundamentally correct.  Even the Danes are admitting they actually save very little CO2.  Anyway, a ROC and a half for offshore megawatt hours is a very nice little earner.</p>
<p>If Redwoodians want to see where your gas and electric are coming from have a look at the following. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.nationalgrid.com/uk/Gas/Data/EFD/" rel="nofollow">http://www.nationalgrid.com/uk/Gas/Data/EFD/</a> </p>
<p><a href="http://www.bmreports.com/bsp/bsp_home.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.bmreports.com/bsp/bsp_home.htm</a> </p>
<p>You will see from the graphs that coal is now doing what we old hands call &#8220;two shifting&#8221; through the night.  It was the heavy oil plants a decade or so back.</p>
<p>You will see the very small contribution wind is making; but these are grid connected / metered wind farms; there are a lot more connected to lower voltage systems.</p>
<p>I think Mark would agree.  You should start worrying about what you see on these sites.</p>
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		<title>By: Ross J Warren</title>
		<link>http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/11/06/good-and-bad-environmentalism/#comment-48719</link>
		<dc:creator>Ross J Warren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Nov 2009 08:44:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=4901#comment-48719</guid>
		<description>&quot;carbon driven baloney? &quot;

I agree, it is nonsense and doesn’t hold water. Frankly I would look to the sun for the answer. Did we imagine that this Star was immune to cyclic warming? We only need a very small brightening of the sun to produce a big effect here. Don&#039;t worry the sun is not going to expand to red giant size just yet. The truth is we do not yet no the causes of the warming. The RMCS would be the best institution to charge with getting an independent answer in my opinion. The Earth has been warming since the mini-ice age, man may be adding to an effect that is natural in origin.

Thanks John for your article and the good work on holding back the tide of errors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;carbon driven baloney? &#8221;</p>
<p>I agree, it is nonsense and doesn’t hold water. Frankly I would look to the sun for the answer. Did we imagine that this Star was immune to cyclic warming? We only need a very small brightening of the sun to produce a big effect here. Don&#8217;t worry the sun is not going to expand to red giant size just yet. The truth is we do not yet no the causes of the warming. The RMCS would be the best institution to charge with getting an independent answer in my opinion. The Earth has been warming since the mini-ice age, man may be adding to an effect that is natural in origin.</p>
<p>Thanks John for your article and the good work on holding back the tide of errors.</p>
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		<title>By: Ross J Warren</title>
		<link>http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/11/06/good-and-bad-environmentalism/#comment-48717</link>
		<dc:creator>Ross J Warren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Nov 2009 08:35:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=4901#comment-48717</guid>
		<description>“Please do not confuse efficiency and sensible and practical living with Environmentalism – and its numerous sects – which is a money generating, political, if not religious, ideology. ”

 Yes the sects are very bad indeed and are full of numerous examples of misleading that I could point out. What is unacceptable in my eyes is (a newspaper article ed) damming God.  Such an attack is unacceptable and yet another example of why our nations press are currently incompatible with good governance. If we accept that all people of good will are equal in the sight of God, then any attack on religion is an attack on us all.  Sadly intolerance leads as we have seen to blood shed in the US. Lets be better than that here. So I would ask (any writer-ed) to think carefully before damming God again after all it is very offensive to many different people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“Please do not confuse efficiency and sensible and practical living with Environmentalism – and its numerous sects – which is a money generating, political, if not religious, ideology. ”</p>
<p> Yes the sects are very bad indeed and are full of numerous examples of misleading that I could point out. What is unacceptable in my eyes is (a newspaper article ed) damming God.  Such an attack is unacceptable and yet another example of why our nations press are currently incompatible with good governance. If we accept that all people of good will are equal in the sight of God, then any attack on religion is an attack on us all.  Sadly intolerance leads as we have seen to blood shed in the US. Lets be better than that here. So I would ask (any writer-ed) to think carefully before damming God again after all it is very offensive to many different people.</p>
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		<title>By: Bazman</title>
		<link>http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/11/06/good-and-bad-environmentalism/#comment-48713</link>
		<dc:creator>Bazman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Nov 2009 07:59:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=4901#comment-48713</guid>
		<description>Letting the market build as many nuclear power stations as possible to meet power demands will result in private companies being paid to run them on the cheap. They will of course be decommissioned using taxpayers money as this is the most expensive part. Design faults, leakages and accidents will also be paid for by the taxpayer. On top of this they will be built using foreign labour and foreign companies. There is no profit in nuclear power it is the most expensive and complicated way to boil a litre of water man has ever devised. Plenty of jobs for the chaps though, and the banks will have a field day.
Coal could be made to be clean and cheap. With a long term supply right here combined with energy conservation which is another source of energy, is the answer over nuclear power. The problem of coal is that it requires skilled labour over a long periods of time and skilled labour does not work for national minimum wage. If only some way round this could be found.... Work camps paid for by private companies using cheap foreign labour. Safety could then be set at an economic level like when coal mining safety was exported in the 1980&#039;s. Like nuclear power any social cost like a mass riot would of course be paid for by the taxpayer. Injured or dead miners who could not be secretly flown out would be dealt with by the NHS. All would be still cheaper than nuclear.
Alternatively the market could be left to its own devices like banking and anyone who cannot afford the prices can burn their furniture or buy a wood burning Aga Range. The money could be then spent on the police. 
All methods will work if you chuck enough taxpayer money at it and lets face it, if you are rich enough tax and utility bills are not a problem in hated Southern Europe. You see Socialism does work! It helps many private and state employee chaps avoid harsh Capitalist realities, especially hard work that gets in the way of life for bothersome long periods. If you can become rich enough you can even become a member of the &#039;party&#039; and avoid all taxes, at least not tell if you choose to pay any.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Letting the market build as many nuclear power stations as possible to meet power demands will result in private companies being paid to run them on the cheap. They will of course be decommissioned using taxpayers money as this is the most expensive part. Design faults, leakages and accidents will also be paid for by the taxpayer. On top of this they will be built using foreign labour and foreign companies. There is no profit in nuclear power it is the most expensive and complicated way to boil a litre of water man has ever devised. Plenty of jobs for the chaps though, and the banks will have a field day.<br />
Coal could be made to be clean and cheap. With a long term supply right here combined with energy conservation which is another source of energy, is the answer over nuclear power. The problem of coal is that it requires skilled labour over a long periods of time and skilled labour does not work for national minimum wage. If only some way round this could be found&#8230;. Work camps paid for by private companies using cheap foreign labour. Safety could then be set at an economic level like when coal mining safety was exported in the 1980&#8217;s. Like nuclear power any social cost like a mass riot would of course be paid for by the taxpayer. Injured or dead miners who could not be secretly flown out would be dealt with by the NHS. All would be still cheaper than nuclear.<br />
Alternatively the market could be left to its own devices like banking and anyone who cannot afford the prices can burn their furniture or buy a wood burning Aga Range. The money could be then spent on the police.<br />
All methods will work if you chuck enough taxpayer money at it and lets face it, if you are rich enough tax and utility bills are not a problem in hated Southern Europe. You see Socialism does work! It helps many private and state employee chaps avoid harsh Capitalist realities, especially hard work that gets in the way of life for bothersome long periods. If you can become rich enough you can even become a member of the &#8216;party&#8217; and avoid all taxes, at least not tell if you choose to pay any.</p>
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		<title>By: ManicBeancounter</title>
		<link>http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/11/06/good-and-bad-environmentalism/#comment-48710</link>
		<dc:creator>ManicBeancounter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Nov 2009 01:22:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=4901#comment-48710</guid>
		<description>If I interpret you correctly there are two parts to your &quot;conservative&quot; environmental opinions. First is the strategic reasons - so that we are not dependent on politically unstable sources of energy supply. The second is economic. Invest in those areas which have net benefits now , as well as those which will (most probably) have long term net benefits.
May I say that you by-pass the central issue of the environmental movement - that we need action now, whatever the cost, or the planet is going to heat up rapidly, with disastrous consequences for the planet and the people upon it. The answer to this is where some conservatism is required. For instance
-	To only intervene where there is a clear, independently audited, net benefit, whether taxes or regulation.
-	To recognize that large-scale government projects, with no clear objectives (e.g. IT projects or “saving” banks) tend to massively overrun on costs, and to massively under-perform on forecast benefits. An inter-governmental compromise on the biggest project of all time is likely to achieve few benefits, but will cost humanity dear. 
-	Taxes work effectively reduce consumption where there is a close substitute. Where there is no close substitute (cost-wise), they work through creating hardship and are regressive.
-	That there can be unintended consequences to well-intentioned policies. Wind farm investment also needs comparable investment in fossil fuel plants for those cold, still, frosty nights. Investing in bio-fuels has lead to increased food prices and the chopping down of rain forests. Giving large amounts of state aid to unproven technologies can lead to waste, but also mis-direct resources away from finding the optimal and most innovative solutions through the market. 
-	Before adopting climate-science as policy, it should be put through an evaluation process. Along the lines of validating and checking new drugs, but, possibly, with less rigor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I interpret you correctly there are two parts to your &#8220;conservative&#8221; environmental opinions. First is the strategic reasons &#8211; so that we are not dependent on politically unstable sources of energy supply. The second is economic. Invest in those areas which have net benefits now , as well as those which will (most probably) have long term net benefits.<br />
May I say that you by-pass the central issue of the environmental movement &#8211; that we need action now, whatever the cost, or the planet is going to heat up rapidly, with disastrous consequences for the planet and the people upon it. The answer to this is where some conservatism is required. For instance<br />
-	To only intervene where there is a clear, independently audited, net benefit, whether taxes or regulation.<br />
-	To recognize that large-scale government projects, with no clear objectives (e.g. IT projects or “saving” banks) tend to massively overrun on costs, and to massively under-perform on forecast benefits. An inter-governmental compromise on the biggest project of all time is likely to achieve few benefits, but will cost humanity dear.<br />
-	Taxes work effectively reduce consumption where there is a close substitute. Where there is no close substitute (cost-wise), they work through creating hardship and are regressive.<br />
-	That there can be unintended consequences to well-intentioned policies. Wind farm investment also needs comparable investment in fossil fuel plants for those cold, still, frosty nights. Investing in bio-fuels has lead to increased food prices and the chopping down of rain forests. Giving large amounts of state aid to unproven technologies can lead to waste, but also mis-direct resources away from finding the optimal and most innovative solutions through the market.<br />
-	Before adopting climate-science as policy, it should be put through an evaluation process. Along the lines of validating and checking new drugs, but, possibly, with less rigor.</p>
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		<title>By: DennisA</title>
		<link>http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/11/06/good-and-bad-environmentalism/#comment-48708</link>
		<dc:creator>DennisA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 19:38:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=4901#comment-48708</guid>
		<description>Professor Plimer is only controversial because he has upset the warmers, such as the Real Climate crew. Real Climate also write and edit most of the climate material on Wikipedia. 

CO2 is not a pollutant, there is peer reviewed challenge to the main plank of the AGW theory, that CO2 emitted now will warm the atmosphere for hundreds of years. 

Residence Time Of CO2 Is About 5 Years, (5 Aug 2009)

In a paper recently published in the international peer-reviewed journal Energy &amp; Fuels, Dr. Robert H. Essenhigh (2009), Professor of Energy Conversion at The Ohio State University, addresses the residence time (RT) of anthropogenic CO2 in the air. 

He finds that the RT for bulk atmospheric CO2, the molecule 12CO2, is about 5 years, in good agreement with other cited sources (Segalstad, 1998), while the RT for the trace molecule 14CO2 is about 16 years. 

Coal is cleaner now than it has ever been because of particle and gaseous filtration, (NoX and SoX). Its CO2 content is not driving global temperatures which are currently in a cooling cycle in spite of still rising CO2 from ocean outgassing resulting from earlier warming. 

Carbon capture and storage is a nonsense. It was captured and stored for free, millions of years ago. Why do we need to waste energy and resources on the highly questionable process of injecting it back underground. 

Controlling CO2 emissions will have almost zero effect on global temperatures. It will have a massively detrimental effect on domestic and industrial electricity users.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Professor Plimer is only controversial because he has upset the warmers, such as the Real Climate crew. Real Climate also write and edit most of the climate material on Wikipedia. </p>
<p>CO2 is not a pollutant, there is peer reviewed challenge to the main plank of the AGW theory, that CO2 emitted now will warm the atmosphere for hundreds of years. </p>
<p>Residence Time Of CO2 Is About 5 Years, (5 Aug 2009)</p>
<p>In a paper recently published in the international peer-reviewed journal Energy &amp; Fuels, Dr. Robert H. Essenhigh (2009), Professor of Energy Conversion at The Ohio State University, addresses the residence time (RT) of anthropogenic CO2 in the air. </p>
<p>He finds that the RT for bulk atmospheric CO2, the molecule 12CO2, is about 5 years, in good agreement with other cited sources (Segalstad, 1998), while the RT for the trace molecule 14CO2 is about 16 years. </p>
<p>Coal is cleaner now than it has ever been because of particle and gaseous filtration, (NoX and SoX). Its CO2 content is not driving global temperatures which are currently in a cooling cycle in spite of still rising CO2 from ocean outgassing resulting from earlier warming. </p>
<p>Carbon capture and storage is a nonsense. It was captured and stored for free, millions of years ago. Why do we need to waste energy and resources on the highly questionable process of injecting it back underground. </p>
<p>Controlling CO2 emissions will have almost zero effect on global temperatures. It will have a massively detrimental effect on domestic and industrial electricity users.</p>
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		<title>By: Glyn H</title>
		<link>http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/11/06/good-and-bad-environmentalism/#comment-48707</link>
		<dc:creator>Glyn H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 19:19:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=4901#comment-48707</guid>
		<description>Plimer may be controversial but so was Galileo. He does not deny the climate is changing, just that is carbon driven or at any faster rate than has happened a huge numbers of times over millennia.

Anyway humans, and flora, thrive in warm conditions and retreat in the face of cold. And he points out glasshouse growers use levels of CO2 three times that in the wider atmosphere to encourage growth. CO2 is the basis of life, not a poison.

It is just risible to think that anything we can do would globally alter the weather. Canute proved that to his vainglorious courtiers over a thousand years ago. Read Plimer on the awesome power of sub-ocean volcanoes and what they emit – and by us not keeping warm or feeding our ever-growing population (sorry Malthus) all will be well. In the present argot: Pleeease!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Plimer may be controversial but so was Galileo. He does not deny the climate is changing, just that is carbon driven or at any faster rate than has happened a huge numbers of times over millennia.</p>
<p>Anyway humans, and flora, thrive in warm conditions and retreat in the face of cold. And he points out glasshouse growers use levels of CO2 three times that in the wider atmosphere to encourage growth. CO2 is the basis of life, not a poison.</p>
<p>It is just risible to think that anything we can do would globally alter the weather. Canute proved that to his vainglorious courtiers over a thousand years ago. Read Plimer on the awesome power of sub-ocean volcanoes and what they emit – and by us not keeping warm or feeding our ever-growing population (sorry Malthus) all will be well. In the present argot: Pleeease!</p>
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		<title>By: Adrian Windisch</title>
		<link>http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/11/06/good-and-bad-environmentalism/#comment-48706</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrian Windisch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 18:50:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=4901#comment-48706</guid>
		<description>I am delighted to hear you &#039;have always seen myself as a keen advocate of green strategies in business and politics.&#039; 

I have often commented on your blog before on your green policies, I recall you don&#039;t like public transport, preferring Jags. How efficient are they? 15-25 MPG? Some cars get 70 mpg!

Renewables and energy saving are the answer, but we have seen very little action from Lab or Cons on this. What happened to &#039;vote blue, go green&#039;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am delighted to hear you &#8216;have always seen myself as a keen advocate of green strategies in business and politics.&#8217; </p>
<p>I have often commented on your blog before on your green policies, I recall you don&#8217;t like public transport, preferring Jags. How efficient are they? 15-25 MPG? Some cars get 70 mpg!</p>
<p>Renewables and energy saving are the answer, but we have seen very little action from Lab or Cons on this. What happened to &#8216;vote blue, go green&#8217;?</p>
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		<title>By: BillyB</title>
		<link>http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/11/06/good-and-bad-environmentalism/#comment-48703</link>
		<dc:creator>BillyB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 16:49:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=4901#comment-48703</guid>
		<description>Check out Prof. Plimer and his book on Wikipedia first - he&#039;s not exactly uncontroversial !

I&#039;ve often wondered if Maggie did the right thing in the 80&#039;s - i.e. leaving our coal in the ground for future generations when it will be worth a lot more.  Don&#039;t think thats what she was thinking of at the time though :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Check out Prof. Plimer and his book on Wikipedia first &#8211; he&#8217;s not exactly uncontroversial !</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve often wondered if Maggie did the right thing in the 80&#8217;s &#8211; i.e. leaving our coal in the ground for future generations when it will be worth a lot more.  Don&#8217;t think thats what she was thinking of at the time though <img src='http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Mike Stallard</title>
		<link>http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/11/06/good-and-bad-environmentalism/#comment-48701</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Stallard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 16:34:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=4901#comment-48701</guid>
		<description>I have just read all through the comments above.
What strikes me is the sheer knowledge and enthusiasm, and, yes, expertise they show.
Compared with the ministers who have supervised our energy policy over the past few years, they really do shine. So why did we get it so wrong?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have just read all through the comments above.<br />
What strikes me is the sheer knowledge and enthusiasm, and, yes, expertise they show.<br />
Compared with the ministers who have supervised our energy policy over the past few years, they really do shine. So why did we get it so wrong?</p>
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		<title>By: Lindsay McDougall</title>
		<link>http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/11/06/good-and-bad-environmentalism/#comment-48700</link>
		<dc:creator>Lindsay McDougall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 16:23:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=4901#comment-48700</guid>
		<description>To focus on domestic sources of energy, as an island we need to invest more in tidal energy. Wind energy is intermittent. The tides are there all the time. Nuclear energy has to play a part, although we have to acknowledge the costs, which will include the costs of keeping out terrorism. Natural gas is clean and cheap, and easy to tap into. However, it is increasingly imported, so will have use it as a stop gap.

I hope that, with regard to transport, we must stop using road travel as a whipping boy. Tax fuel for all transport modes. That means the taxation of aviation fuel and a revision to international agreements. In the case of electrified rail, the incremental emissions at power stations should be taxed. Let us apply &quot;the polluter pays&quot; principle in a manner that creates a level playing field. And we should always remember that travel by sea has the lowest fuel consumption rate per tonne-km.

We are going to be very short of central government cash for the next 5 years, so the stick will have to be used more than the carrot. Perhaps householders should be obliged to install, at their own expense, cavity wall insulation and solar panels over a ten year period - always assuming that the houses were suitable. Regulations could be applied to new build houses.

Agricultural production: If you don&#039;t like fertilisers and GM crops, you have to acknowledge that yields will be limited, which necessitates limiting the world&#039;s population soon. (words left out ed)

Finally, let us suppose that there has to be a steady reduction in the level of CO2 in the atmosphere - i.e. negative NET emissions of CO2. Does anybody know a better way than planting more trees?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To focus on domestic sources of energy, as an island we need to invest more in tidal energy. Wind energy is intermittent. The tides are there all the time. Nuclear energy has to play a part, although we have to acknowledge the costs, which will include the costs of keeping out terrorism. Natural gas is clean and cheap, and easy to tap into. However, it is increasingly imported, so will have use it as a stop gap.</p>
<p>I hope that, with regard to transport, we must stop using road travel as a whipping boy. Tax fuel for all transport modes. That means the taxation of aviation fuel and a revision to international agreements. In the case of electrified rail, the incremental emissions at power stations should be taxed. Let us apply &#8220;the polluter pays&#8221; principle in a manner that creates a level playing field. And we should always remember that travel by sea has the lowest fuel consumption rate per tonne-km.</p>
<p>We are going to be very short of central government cash for the next 5 years, so the stick will have to be used more than the carrot. Perhaps householders should be obliged to install, at their own expense, cavity wall insulation and solar panels over a ten year period &#8211; always assuming that the houses were suitable. Regulations could be applied to new build houses.</p>
<p>Agricultural production: If you don&#8217;t like fertilisers and GM crops, you have to acknowledge that yields will be limited, which necessitates limiting the world&#8217;s population soon. (words left out ed)</p>
<p>Finally, let us suppose that there has to be a steady reduction in the level of CO2 in the atmosphere &#8211; i.e. negative NET emissions of CO2. Does anybody know a better way than planting more trees?</p>
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		<title>By: Ex Liverpool rioter</title>
		<link>http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/11/06/good-and-bad-environmentalism/#comment-48699</link>
		<dc:creator>Ex Liverpool rioter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 15:33:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=4901#comment-48699</guid>
		<description>John
You need to read this:-
http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2009/11/06/81731/gilty-opportunism/

BOE to Move the Goal posts?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John<br />
You need to read this:-<br />
<a href="http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2009/11/06/81731/gilty-opportunism/" rel="nofollow">http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2009/11/06/81731/gilty-opportunism/</a></p>
<p>BOE to Move the Goal posts?</p>
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		<title>By: Glyn H</title>
		<link>http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/11/06/good-and-bad-environmentalism/#comment-48698</link>
		<dc:creator>Glyn H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 15:29:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=4901#comment-48698</guid>
		<description>May I draw attention to Professor Ian Plimer’s book ‘Heaven and Earth, global warming, the missing science’ (ISBN 978-1-58979-472-6) which comprehensively rebuts the nonsense of the IPCC reports and the anthropogenic carbon driven balony? It’s a bit heavy going but is a must read for those who adhere to JR’s Range Rovers on Mars analogy. (usual disclaimers)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>May I draw attention to Professor Ian Plimer’s book ‘Heaven and Earth, global warming, the missing science’ (ISBN 978-1-58979-472-6) which comprehensively rebuts the nonsense of the IPCC reports and the anthropogenic carbon driven balony? It’s a bit heavy going but is a must read for those who adhere to JR’s Range Rovers on Mars analogy. (usual disclaimers)</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Ex Liverpool rioter</title>
		<link>http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/11/06/good-and-bad-environmentalism/#comment-48697</link>
		<dc:creator>Ex Liverpool rioter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 15:21:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=4901#comment-48697</guid>
		<description>Darling wants price controls:-
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601102&amp;sid=a7vKb1ENRhM0

Great, they print a shed full of money then DEMAND price controls!!!!

Just Like Peter Schiff said they would.
Mike</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Darling wants price controls:-<br />
<a href="http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601102&amp;sid=a7vKb1ENRhM0" rel="nofollow">http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601102&amp;sid=a7vKb1ENRhM0</a></p>
<p>Great, they print a shed full of money then DEMAND price controls!!!!</p>
<p>Just Like Peter Schiff said they would.<br />
Mike</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/11/06/good-and-bad-environmentalism/#comment-48691</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 13:04:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=4901#comment-48691</guid>
		<description>Please can we deal in facts?  The UK is NOT dependent on ME oil, as this excellent summary of historical trends on oil imports and production shows:

http://www.berr.gov.uk/files/file43846.pdf

Oil supply became much more localised as freight rates soared, and we are heavily dependent on Norwegian oil to supplement our own production, with Russia as the second largest source of imports by a large margin over the next ranking sources.  We have lost self sufficiency in refinery capacity, and now rely on imports of aviation and motor fuels in particular to meet demand.  Refinery closures (and our lack of import of higher sulphur ME crudes) have in part been motivated by environmental laws.  Our dependence on foreign oil is now becoming real and fast increasing simply because our North Sea production is falling rapidly, so we no longer produce enough to trade for the crudes and products we need.  Oil is at least freely traded on international markets, and unless we become an embargoed destination (picking silly arguments with Russia over minor issues doesn&#039;t seem like a smart idea, whatever Miliband thinks), we will be able to maintain supply.

The situation for gas is very uncertain.  Our North Sea production is falling rapidly, and we will depend increasingly on imports.  This document 

http://www.parliament.uk/documents/upload/POSTpn230.pdf

gives some indication of the problems the UK faces with gas supply.  Only our Norwegian imports by dedicated pipeline are secure.  We are tail end Charlie on the pipelines that feed continental Europe, dependent on the goodwill of Europeans to keep us supplied when Miliband&#039;s Lord High Poo-Bah antics as EU High Representative or similar cause the Russians to cut supply as they periodically do already.  

The development of the LNG market is crucial to maintaining any kind of gas supply security.  Unfortunately, that DOES leave us dependent on ME sourcing since world gas reserves are much more concentrated than oil, dominated by Russia, Iran, Iraq, Qatar and Saudi.  While there are suggestions from the industry (BP&#039;s Tony Hayward in particular) that gas supply is improving globally - particularly for the US (deep offshore USG, Canadian shale) which will be a big LNG buyer, there is much work to be done to bring these supplies into commission, with the very real prospect of a supply squeeze in the next few years.  Meantime, having just two enormous ports (Milford Haven and Isle of Grain) that handle LNG imports is a risk of itself.  The lack of (distributed) storage capacity leaves us vulnerable to supply shocks.  A further dash for gas in power generation may seem superficially attractive from a perceived energy efficiency point of view, but not from a risk diversification angle.

Turning to power generation itself the economics of wind are becoming clearer, and are less attractive than once they seemed.  Firstly, there is the need for 100% reserve capacity to cover for when the wind conditions prevent generation.  Secondly, the engineering experience gained by the Danes suggests that offshore turbine life is rather shorter than originally assumed, and maintenance cost is higher.  Don&#039;t break too much wind - it really isn&#039;t the panacea that greens claim.

That leaves coal - where we have several hundred years&#039; reserves securely beneath our feet, nuclear, and conservation (since solar is not practical for anything other than heat top up at our latitudes and given our weather).  

It is a nice paradox that we ignore the secure supply we have because we are being &quot;good environmentalists&quot; while China builds one new coal fired generating station EVERY WEEK.  Here is a similar picture for coal to that for oil:

http://www.berr.gov.uk/files/file43926.pdf

Once again, we can see that we are dependent on imports, which are dominated by supplies from Russia (AGAIN!) and South Africa.  Our domestic production remains muted.  A previous generation of UK coal miners literally fought battles  which you will remember all too well.  That should not determine policy today, 25 years later.  Modern coal generating plant is not too far behind gas in efficiency, albeit slow fire-up means that it is best suited to a baseload role rather than meeting daily demand peaks.  A reminder that wind paragon of virtue Denmark consumes 7 times as much coal energy generating electricity as the total output of its wind farms.  It is likely that we will need to secure a derogation from the EU on closing coal fired capacity if the lights are not to go out.  Plan on it, and plan a more coal friendly future (preferably without econut carbon capture at ridiculous expense unless the Chinese retrofit all their stations).

Likewise with nuclear capacity we are going to need derogations to keep stations on stream.  We need to reinforce our engineering expertise in nuclear: abandoning to the French is not smart.  There are those who argue that uranium supplies may become scarce in future.  These arguments ignore the workings of geologists and markets in exploration and production.  They also ignore the potential for breeder reactors to stretch uranium supply by a factor of around 40 - albeit with the nasty problem of plutonium as a side product and secondary energy source.  Here is another take on the issue:

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=how-long-will-global-uranium-deposits-last

Longer term we may be able to supplant fission and fossil fuel by fusion, but the earliest estimated date for commercial fusion has remained 2030 for 40 years (when JET at Culham was started), and may will slip back: ITER won&#039;t meet that target, but perhaps the US research at Lawrence Livermore on laser based methods will be successful sooner.  

Official attitudes to conservation are often based on poor science that fails to recognise economics or full energy budgets.  Thus we see more fuel efficient cars being favoured by taxation that encourages scrappage of vehicles with useful life remaining, with the result that more energy is required to build the new vehicles than is saved by the early scrappage of the older ones.  We are told that low speed limits increase fuel efficiency, which flies in the face of the experience of drivers who get their best fuel consumption when allowed to drive at a steady speed.  We build ecohomes miles and miles from jobs instead of bringing jobs to where people live.  The ecobulbs we are supposed to use have much shortened lives if we switch them on and off regularly, changing the economics and energy budget compared with the propaganda that relies on continuous burn lifetimes.  The nonsense and value judgements need sorting from the realities.  The market is probably more efficient than regulation in doing just that, judging from current experience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please can we deal in facts?  The UK is NOT dependent on ME oil, as this excellent summary of historical trends on oil imports and production shows:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.berr.gov.uk/files/file43846.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.berr.gov.uk/files/file43846.pdf</a></p>
<p>Oil supply became much more localised as freight rates soared, and we are heavily dependent on Norwegian oil to supplement our own production, with Russia as the second largest source of imports by a large margin over the next ranking sources.  We have lost self sufficiency in refinery capacity, and now rely on imports of aviation and motor fuels in particular to meet demand.  Refinery closures (and our lack of import of higher sulphur ME crudes) have in part been motivated by environmental laws.  Our dependence on foreign oil is now becoming real and fast increasing simply because our North Sea production is falling rapidly, so we no longer produce enough to trade for the crudes and products we need.  Oil is at least freely traded on international markets, and unless we become an embargoed destination (picking silly arguments with Russia over minor issues doesn&#8217;t seem like a smart idea, whatever Miliband thinks), we will be able to maintain supply.</p>
<p>The situation for gas is very uncertain.  Our North Sea production is falling rapidly, and we will depend increasingly on imports.  This document </p>
<p><a href="http://www.parliament.uk/documents/upload/POSTpn230.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.parliament.uk/documents/upload/POSTpn230.pdf</a></p>
<p>gives some indication of the problems the UK faces with gas supply.  Only our Norwegian imports by dedicated pipeline are secure.  We are tail end Charlie on the pipelines that feed continental Europe, dependent on the goodwill of Europeans to keep us supplied when Miliband&#8217;s Lord High Poo-Bah antics as EU High Representative or similar cause the Russians to cut supply as they periodically do already.  </p>
<p>The development of the LNG market is crucial to maintaining any kind of gas supply security.  Unfortunately, that DOES leave us dependent on ME sourcing since world gas reserves are much more concentrated than oil, dominated by Russia, Iran, Iraq, Qatar and Saudi.  While there are suggestions from the industry (BP&#8217;s Tony Hayward in particular) that gas supply is improving globally &#8211; particularly for the US (deep offshore USG, Canadian shale) which will be a big LNG buyer, there is much work to be done to bring these supplies into commission, with the very real prospect of a supply squeeze in the next few years.  Meantime, having just two enormous ports (Milford Haven and Isle of Grain) that handle LNG imports is a risk of itself.  The lack of (distributed) storage capacity leaves us vulnerable to supply shocks.  A further dash for gas in power generation may seem superficially attractive from a perceived energy efficiency point of view, but not from a risk diversification angle.</p>
<p>Turning to power generation itself the economics of wind are becoming clearer, and are less attractive than once they seemed.  Firstly, there is the need for 100% reserve capacity to cover for when the wind conditions prevent generation.  Secondly, the engineering experience gained by the Danes suggests that offshore turbine life is rather shorter than originally assumed, and maintenance cost is higher.  Don&#8217;t break too much wind &#8211; it really isn&#8217;t the panacea that greens claim.</p>
<p>That leaves coal &#8211; where we have several hundred years&#8217; reserves securely beneath our feet, nuclear, and conservation (since solar is not practical for anything other than heat top up at our latitudes and given our weather).  </p>
<p>It is a nice paradox that we ignore the secure supply we have because we are being &#8220;good environmentalists&#8221; while China builds one new coal fired generating station EVERY WEEK.  Here is a similar picture for coal to that for oil:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.berr.gov.uk/files/file43926.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.berr.gov.uk/files/file43926.pdf</a></p>
<p>Once again, we can see that we are dependent on imports, which are dominated by supplies from Russia (AGAIN!) and South Africa.  Our domestic production remains muted.  A previous generation of UK coal miners literally fought battles  which you will remember all too well.  That should not determine policy today, 25 years later.  Modern coal generating plant is not too far behind gas in efficiency, albeit slow fire-up means that it is best suited to a baseload role rather than meeting daily demand peaks.  A reminder that wind paragon of virtue Denmark consumes 7 times as much coal energy generating electricity as the total output of its wind farms.  It is likely that we will need to secure a derogation from the EU on closing coal fired capacity if the lights are not to go out.  Plan on it, and plan a more coal friendly future (preferably without econut carbon capture at ridiculous expense unless the Chinese retrofit all their stations).</p>
<p>Likewise with nuclear capacity we are going to need derogations to keep stations on stream.  We need to reinforce our engineering expertise in nuclear: abandoning to the French is not smart.  There are those who argue that uranium supplies may become scarce in future.  These arguments ignore the workings of geologists and markets in exploration and production.  They also ignore the potential for breeder reactors to stretch uranium supply by a factor of around 40 &#8211; albeit with the nasty problem of plutonium as a side product and secondary energy source.  Here is another take on the issue:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=how-long-will-global-uranium-deposits-last" rel="nofollow">http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=how-long-will-global-uranium-deposits-last</a></p>
<p>Longer term we may be able to supplant fission and fossil fuel by fusion, but the earliest estimated date for commercial fusion has remained 2030 for 40 years (when JET at Culham was started), and may will slip back: ITER won&#8217;t meet that target, but perhaps the US research at Lawrence Livermore on laser based methods will be successful sooner.  </p>
<p>Official attitudes to conservation are often based on poor science that fails to recognise economics or full energy budgets.  Thus we see more fuel efficient cars being favoured by taxation that encourages scrappage of vehicles with useful life remaining, with the result that more energy is required to build the new vehicles than is saved by the early scrappage of the older ones.  We are told that low speed limits increase fuel efficiency, which flies in the face of the experience of drivers who get their best fuel consumption when allowed to drive at a steady speed.  We build ecohomes miles and miles from jobs instead of bringing jobs to where people live.  The ecobulbs we are supposed to use have much shortened lives if we switch them on and off regularly, changing the economics and energy budget compared with the propaganda that relies on continuous burn lifetimes.  The nonsense and value judgements need sorting from the realities.  The market is probably more efficient than regulation in doing just that, judging from current experience.</p>
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