Nov 15 2009
The mood of the Conservative party
The Conservative leadership has regularly warned the party not to be over confident or triumphalist about a possible victory in the forthcoming General Election. They have no need to worry on that score. I have spoken to a number of different associations recently, including my own. The mood is sombre, serious and concerned.
Don’t get me wrong. All the Conservatives I meet would love an election in three weeks time. All are impatient for change. They want an end to the present government and the present Parliament, which has failed us. Most members think the Conseravtives are likely to form the next government, either with an overall majority or because the Conservatives are the largest party. If it is a hung Parliament many will want David Cameron to become PM leading a minority administration, taking each vote as it comes with the other parties until they decide to force an election by defeating the government. The mood is not sombre because they fear another bad defeat. The mood is sombre because they think we might well win.
I can best describe the feelings by analogy. It is as if we, the parents, had returned from a tour of duty abroad to find that the 18 year old twins we had left in the UK home had wrecked the place. As we get back we discover that the carpets and decorations have been trashed by too many all night parties. The power no longer works properly, the electrics are damaged, the plumbing is blocked and the cooker is so dirty you would need a day to clean it before you could cook. Worse still we discover they have run up an enormous phone bill ringing friends in far away places for long chats, they have used our credit for the biggest off licence bills and take away bills you have ever seen. The credit cards have been well and truly flexed. We have to come home to work to pay off the debts, run up in our name but not with our authority. They are at war with the neighbours and the place is in disrepair.
That’s how we feel about the inheritance any new government will receive. So many fine British institutions have been damaged or run down by this government. We need reform in the schools and in the hospitals, on the roads and the railways, in the Post Offices and in the quangos, at the BBC and in the EU. The debts are on an unbelievable scale. We are now borrowing £1 for every £4 we spend. The state owns two massive banks and has done precious little to get them into shape or to cut their losses.We have inflation rising against a backdrop of the biggest fall in activity since the 1930s.
Conservatives are sombre because of the possible task ahead. They realise it might be time for the public to want us to serve again in government. They know it is going to be far from easy or comfortable to do so. Only a fool would welcome the challenge ahead. Only a democrat truly dedicated to public service would take it on.
On Friday a Shadow Minister came to a Conservative lunch for the Wokingham constituency. After his speech members closely questioned him on the EU, climate change, the Afghan war, the BBC and open primaries. The questions revealed a wish for reassurance. Members wanted to know that the new Conservative EU policy will include a strong pursuit of powers back from Brussels and a move towards greater self government. They wanted to know there is a better strategic view of the length and purpose of the Afghan war than the present government seems to have, with the emphasis on the wish to cut back on the fighting by British troops. They wanted to be told that a Conservative government would not cynically use climate change theory to put taxes up. They favour strong action to cut or remove the licence fee from the BBC. They were worried that open primaries will produce the wrong candidates and weaken local control. In other words, they were beginning to act as a party close to power, offering criticial comment on the tasks ahead. They offered supportive criticism to ensure their representatives understand the needs and the mood.
57 Responses to “The mood of the Conservative party”
John Redwood has been the Member of Parliament for Wokingham since 1987. First attending Kent College, Canterbury, he graduated from Magdalen College...
Since we don’t have a properly conservative (small ‘c’), Conservative party, I don’t yet know what I will do with my vote. The Tories are right to be concerned though; David Cameron is still not convincing the electorate. I wonder if the final nail in his, and the Tories’ coffin may be their pathetic ideas on how to tackle the EU situation, post-Lisbon.
You only have to look properly at the opinion polls to see that, although the Tories have a lead, it is a comparitively small part of the electorate who admit their intention to vote for them, or any of the three main parties (or to vote at all). There is a vast group of people who do not feel represented in parliament and who, undoubtably, will not bother to vote.
Labour’s scorched earth policy should be allowed to come back to bite them. I am coming round to thinking that I would like to see them remain in power and have to sort out the mess they have created.
As things stand, whether Labour, Conservatives or Liberal Democrats end up leading the next government, there is little to seperate them, and therefore, nothing will change. At least if the Conservatives don’t win, there is a chance they will ditch Cameron and his left-liberal ideologies and return to proper social, moral and political conservatism with the likes of JR at the fore.
But I’m not holding my breath.
It’s good to know that the Conservative faithful understand the mess we’re in; but more to the point is whether the NuLabour faithful question their party on what has actually been achieved (without input from the Ministry of Bogus Statistics) over the last 13 years – yes, 13 long years – and why they want, let alone deserve, more time in office.
Even more importantly is the attitude of the huge swathe of the apolitical who may well be saying, “Well, it could have been worse”, and have no idea what government borrowing means for them in the long term; a long term which in reality we have already entered.
I think many are concerned about Cameron and the leadership. To use a simple old phrase. Are they the wets.
The fear is by not taking clear action Cameron may “do a Heath” and make things worse not better.
If you find the house as you describe you do not keep the same cleaners.
Mr Redwood.
I have been a staunch Tory all my life but I will not be voting Tory this time round. Many other people will be doing the same as I am and voting UKIP. You see, most people do not believe that Cameron is any different from Brown in many ways. His rhetoric on the EU has killed any loyality that many of us had for the Conservatives. We would like our democracy returned to us with a simple in/out vote on the EU.
“Inquests into some deaths could be held in secret in future after Parliament approved the controversial proposal.
It went through the Commons on Thursday after a series of concessions led to Tory peers dropping their opposition in the House of Lords on Wednesday”.
They still refuse to support a democratic and transparent government.
The Tories no longer have any backbone and are still prone to thinking that we are their cashcows and they can tell us peasants what’s good for us!
What have the Conservatives ever done to fight the decay of our civil liberties? They’ve calmly stood by for the last few years and let this totalitarian dictatorship walk all over us.
Part of the problem is also surely that it is only a short while ago that the Conservatives (not JR, but those responsible for the Conservatives’ economic policies) parted company with Labour on public spending.
It may have been politically expedient at the time to have matched Labour’s spending plans, and it may even have been political brilliance on David Cameron’s part to neutralise that line of Labour’s attack at a time for as long as the electorate still gave Labour the benefit of the doubt on the economy (as they did at that time).
However the belief that the Conservatives (again, not JR, but the party leadership) would have done very little differently economically in the run-up to the crisis doesn’t fill one with enthusiasm for what is coming next.
It’s true that much of the assumption is that the next government with be based on a Conservative majority. However, this is probably because the system normally only has one effective alternative to the incumbent.
At the moment, all three main parties have a protest alternative. Labour has the BNP, Conservatives have UKIP, and the Liberals have the Green party. There are effectively five “anyone but Gordon” parties, depending on which constituency you live in, and if you like the sitting MP.
My constituency is a Tory safe seat, and I don’t like what has been revealed about the sitting MP by the expenses saga. As such, if I was asked by a pollster today, I would probably offer my vote to UKIP. In practice, if there was a genuine election, I’d probably just stay at home.
Although I hate what Mr Brown has done (and is still doing) to the country, I don’t want to offer support to my existing MP because of what he has personally done. This was marginally outweighed by my hope that Mr Cameron would give us a real choice on Europe, but that hope is now gone.
I’d vote for the “small government” policy, but when the EU can over-rule it, that vote seems pointless.
Thanks for the behind the scenes glance. I imagine most members still remember Neil Kinnock and his ill-fated attempt to gain the Premiership.
The cynic in me would say that Labour are keeping Gordon Brown at the helm to ensure that they don’t win the next election, then in 5 years time, after the chickens of this last government have come home to roost, Labour can say ‘Were things better in 2009 or 2014?’.
Continuing your analogy the couple may find that they are so crippled by debts that they have to sell their nice, spacious detached house and move to a mid-terrace. Then the children will say ‘Well, we did wreck the house but even wrecked it was still a lot better than the house we currently live in!’
In 20 years time, after painfully paying off the debts and squirreling some away for their retirement will the unlucky parents go away on holiday with their children and this time trust their 18 year old grandchildren with the keys, convinced by their grandchilrens protestations that they have learned the lessons of the past from their parents?
Labour – Conservative
Conservative – Labour
Labour – Conservative
Conservative – Labour
It’s so depressing to hear people saying we’re voting one to keep out the other. It’s like have a choice between Stalin or Mao.
Boycot the main parties and break the duoploy and see some real change.
I will be voting UKIP because the Tories have proved beyond any doubt that they are not to be trusted on the EU.
Your constituency party members seem to have asked pertinent questions on some but not all of the most pressing issues. Their attitude to these issues would appear to be in tune with what I detect to be the views of most who contribute to this blog. What we don’t know is what the shadow minister’s responses were to these concerns. Perhaps he was only in “listening mode”. In many areas we are left wondering just what a Cameron government would do to correct the devastation they would face. I detest this Labour government but I am far from confident that a Conservative government has the necessary strength of character and determination to tackle the job. The electorate is being asked to take too much on trust. The problem is that there is a massive lack of public trust in politicians. Too many members of the shadow cabinet seem less than adequate in their shadow roles let alone in government. There is a maximum of six months before the general election. Your party’s leadership has a lot of work and convincing to do if they want to take on this enormous challenge. Their response will indicate if they really have the essential drive and determination to earn the chance.
The backlash from the Lisbon referendum may be far greater than you imagine.
I hope so because a Tory defeat at the next election may be the best thing to have happened to this party for decades.
Yes its a real conundrum, given that the full extent of our situation has not yet been fully exposed. That is why the Conservatives must publish the full and unedited version of the National accounts as soon as they get into power (if they get into power).
Whilst I understand many people have concerns over a weak Conservative Government (and in opposition they have been)
I really do not see an alternative to a Conservative Government at the moment, no matter those concerns for the following reasons.
Does anyone really think that another 5 years of Brown is going to lead to any sort of improvement, when he has been controlling the purse strings for the last 12 years !!!!!
Does anyone really think that the Liberals have any sort of convincing plan for governing the UK, when it supports the EU as it does.
Does anyone really think that UKIP can run the UK in any way at all.
The Greens, just more taxes, regulation, total confusion, and more EU support.
BNP forget it.
The fact is the Conservatives are the best of a bad bunch at the moment, and that is desperately sad for Democracy.
I can only hope that should they get into power, then their performance is better than present publicity suggests.
I would be more confident John, if you were involved in a major way with some real policy influence. But perhaps you are behind the scenes, but are too modest to say so.
JR: “The mood is sombre, serious and concerned. ”
Rightfully so. We will shortly have an opportunity to give a good kicking to the dishonest and morally bankrupt party and government that has lorded it over us for the past thirteen years.
However we recognize echoes of this government’s shallowness, its obsession with misrepresentation of facts, its lack of principle, its policy for the moment and short term blip in the opinion polls, we recognize some of those characteristics in the potential government of which the leader and future prime minister will be a one time advertising executive.
Don’t misunderstand my point, advertising executives serve an excellent purpose when promoting washing powder or even which hospital to choose – if we had such choice in this country, but in my opinion, such a person is not the correct choice for Prime minister especially, given our experience for the last decade.
JR: “They want an end to the present government and the present Parliament, which has failed us.”
The Parliament is its members. Some are good, many are bad, but no one should forget that all of you hushed up the corruption!
Many MPs seemed to have critical opinions of Mr Conway, at the same time as engaging in or condoning exactly the same ‘rotten borough’ practices.
Other MPs turned a blind eye. For the rest of us, in law ignoring a crime is a crime in itself.
JR: “The questions revealed a wish for reassurance.”
We don’t want reassurance, we want self determination and self government, the rule of law and that the law should apply to the lowest and the highest in the land.
None of those things exist at the moment. And the spin has already started within the Cameron regieme. No we couldn’t really offer you a referendum on the Lisbon treaty, even though it was a ‘CAST IRON GUARANTEE’.
If an incoming Tory administration was forthright and honest about recovering the right to self determination, a solid vote in a referendum supporting repatriation or renegotiation of power and authority to Westminster would be a good weapon to have in your armory.
How can the Tory policy of ‘Localism’ be implemented if the powers you wish to devolve do not belong to the Westminster
The Tory Party and Cameron should stop lying before it gets elected, otherwise it will find it much more difficult to do so after when the things it says will be thought to really matter and there will be an increasing disconnect between the things said by a Cameron administration and the Laws emanating from Brussels.
That way lies distrust, disillusionment and failure. God knows what comes after that!
The Tories under Cameron are doing to their core vote (but at the moment to a lesser degree) what Labour did to theirs.
Labour ignored the interests and wishes of their core vote and aimed for the middle ground. They won the middle ground for a while, but in the process badly damaged their core vote. The result is the BNP. Labour has now lost the support of the middle ground, but much of their core vote has absconded – and won’t easily be encouraged to come back. Labour lost support on the issue of immigration.
Cameron is doing the same on the EU. He has pitched for the middle ground. He is promising to ‘try’ and negotiate repatriation of powers whilst keeping us in the EU. At no stage have the British people been given a say in whether we should even BE in the EU – let alone stay.
A small minority of the Conservatives core electorate has already transferred to UKIP – which makes Cameron’s likelihood of forming a strong Government weaker. But in the course of the next one or two Parliaments (assuming he wins) unless he acts to keep and recover eurosceptic Conservatives, he will find himself in the same position as Labour. When he needs his core vote to shore up a disgruntled middle ground, it won’t be there.
waramess Reply:
November 18th, 2009 at 8:41 am
The difference between ditching the left and ditching the right is of course that those who support the extreme left wing views of the socialists often never vote but I would guess the right of the Tory party will all vote…something
What you missed in your analogy is that having run out of money the kids decided to sell the house to all the neighbours in the street; a portion for each.
While trying to clean up the mess and solve the problems you continually find that 26 neighbours have different ideas with what to do with what is now ‘their’ house too.
As always John has correctly divined the mood of thinking, feeling conservatives. One could talk about the group soul of the party, but that would be more appropriately dealt with on an esoteric site. Save to say, that such a synchronicity of thought seems to mark this party out as different from the others. John’s analogy of the trashed house is a good, only the teens have not only “borrowed” using our credit cards and run up large debts on “inappropriate spending”, having maxed out the credit cards, they have it seems been using our name to get further credit and have also resorted to raiding the monopoly game for “extra” cash. So yes there must be many in the party who quite frankly are very worried indeed about the family finances and realise that it will take more than a few simple phone calls to sort the mess out. Unfortunately we are responsible for the mess, the moment we take power. With Labour now borrowing monies at a monthly rate, which once would been a disgrace if borrowed yearly, it is difficult to see how we are going to be able to find any monies for our pet projects.
This is why it is vital that we come up with cheap (free is better) Conservative reforms that we can implement in our first Term that will improve our collective lot, without hitting the national purse. A good example of the sort of thinking that I am personally advocating is the use of local pressure to use existing bye-laws to end the vile habit of spitting, which used not to be a problem even in my lifetime.
Despite the feelings of some rather depressed members of the party, we can and we will make a difference. I believe we should be working very hard to ensure a Conservative victory and not fall into the trap of believing a “hung parliament” would be a better alternative. Frankly I don’t believe we can trust Labour (the teens) until they are well into their forties. So we need a generational commitment to keeping the Socialists and their irresponsible friends out of power for 30 or more years. As always John has set us thinking! Lets win this Election and sort out this nation. A hung
Parliament is not a sensible way to run this nation. D.C. is our leader and our clear duty as party faithful is to get him into power with at least a workable majority.
Lets take it day by day, but please let us kick over the socialist anthill!
SUE: “What have the Conservatives ever done to fight the decay of our civil liberties? They’ve calmly stood by for the last few years and let this totalitarian dictatorship walk all over us.”
Exactly, I couldn’t agree more.
Cast your mind back to 1988, Kenneth Clarke was sitting in Tony Blairs ‘big tent’, how is it Clarke can forget his supposed loyalty to the Tory party so convieniently???
Hestletine was there too
At the same time Lord Strathclyde was undermining the Tories in the Lords.
Strathclyde abandoned the Tory majority in the Lords giving, without a fight the whole Parliament to one Tony Blair.
He should have stood up and fought for a directly elected Lords then and there! But again a Tory, or supposed Tory failed to stand up and confront Labour’s ‘progressive’ programme.
What has Labour done since the abolition of the hereditary peers? Why stuffed the Lords with its own placemen. For Gods sake, Kinnock and Mandleson are in the Lords now. How can that arrangement be any more democratic than what prevailed previously?
If things are so bad (and they could change)why are you so sure that lightweights like Cameron and Osborne are up to the job?
Ross J Warren Reply:
November 15th, 2009 at 1:44 pm
“If things are so bad (and they could change)why are you so sure that lightweights like Cameron and Osborne are up to the job?”
That’s simple far from being lightweights they have been very successful in attracting large numbers of previously silent Conservatives back into the party. Far from being Lightweights they have reunited the party and given it a fresh dynamic face. Far from being Lightweights they lead a large number of political heavyweights. Indeed in D.C., G.O. and W.H. we have a leadership team that will push through important even vital reforms. Sadly Mr O. miss read both our leaders and their great party. Time to stand aside and let us get the job done I would say.
DBC Reed Reply:
November 16th, 2009 at 11:03 am
Mr O and Miss Read.Who they?
Despite all this pro-lightweight boosterism,a lot of old righties on this site are looking to vote UKIP.
Ross J Warren Reply:
November 16th, 2009 at 12:41 pm
Sorry I must remember to keep the jargon down. Mr O being President Obama and his misreading of the strengths of Dave and his team. I do apologise, as they say on the American side of the Internet, “my bad”. Personally I cannot see any logic in voting for UKIP, it will only weaken our ability to fight Europe. If the leaders of UKIP were indeed so committed to being outside the E.U. you might think, as principled politicians, they would
give up their seats and refuse to take a penny from the E.U. Frankly the more of us who vote for D.C. the stronger our hand will be. I am in favour of being in Europe but prepared to get out if the Continent again slips into psychotic politics. I would also point out that had we not become split on the E.U., we would have been the party in power, and we could be drinking to the good health of a newly liberated Great Britain. As it is, we frankly only have ourselves to blame. As for UKIP its going to be a wasted vote and as a result you will not be represented as well as you could have been. Bin & Boo are both sceptical of Europe, we are indeed a euro sceptic party. However the leaders of UKIP are in my opinion, playing a lot of people for suckers. As I have said if they meant what they say, wouldn’t they demonstrate that by resigning their seats? As it is you would be far better represented in the E.U. by the Conservative party, who at least are being honest, and not pretending that withdraw would be either easy, or frankly in the national interest. The most important consideration right now is getting our economy running again. So market confidence has to be our overriding concern, any question of a frankly crazy withdraw without negotiation would send many business men and women scurrying as fast as possible for the Exit, taking their money and vital skills with them. So far from being lightweights we are Rational, sensible and honest and determined to do what is best for G.B.plc.
I agree with Sue and HK, having been a conservative since my teens I will be voting UKIP. Cameron’s welshing on the referendum has destroyed any belief I may have had on his fitness to be Prime Minister or lead a credible government.
As if by magic, I open The Times and lo and behold ..
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6917198.ece
Is it any surprise we cannot see the difference between either party?
I think the mood of the Conservative Party if the party loyalists on ConHome are representative is verging on delusional. The innate belief that the Conservative Party is the only option to get rid of Labour, is the naive tribal politics of the 60’s and 70’s .
Most people no longer see any difference between the major parties, and see no advantage in supporting the muggins turn approach that the parties want. In effect voting Conservative to get lower taxes, results in the cry by the party that the public must then by default also support the parties policies on Europe or Immigration or whatever. This sort of thinking was patently dishonest, and has been exposed by the voter as dishonest, yet the party loyalists stil think they can get away with it.
Like many I no longer vote on a party ticket, but will in future only vote for parties with coherent policies on the two defining issues of the day, namely the EU and immigration. If this results in another Labour government for 5 years, then so be it. It may just force the Conservative party into the real world, and force those in the party such as yourself, Hannan and Cash to walk the walk, rather than just talk the talk. The political landscape is changing, and the bus is about to leave, its time to put up or shut up.
James Morrison Reply:
November 15th, 2009 at 9:35 pm
Very well said
Michael Taylor Reply:
November 16th, 2009 at 3:10 pm
Well said. The corrosion of our democracy and concommitant erosion of common liberties is felt every bit as much as the coming economic crisis. DC simply doesn’t address this deep and deeply distressing political issue. I have no idea how the future will look if this trend to a ‘post-democratic’ society isn’t reversed. But I won’t be giving my vote to any party that doesn’t fight for liberty and democracy. I just won’t.
Without a referendum on Europe my vote will go to UKIP,if Cameron loses he’s gone and thats no bad thing,we need someone who is prepared to do the will of the people and give us a vote on Europe.
Did the shadow minister reveal Tory policy on “global warming”, now known as “climate change”?
To those of you that say you will vote UKIP I would like to say that the UK will never put into power a strong right wing party.
Blair found the answer and took the middle ground over to New Labour, and as much as you do not like it, the party that wins the the middle ground will win the election.
The step from voting Labour to Tory is too big a step for most people, so they have moved since New Labour first won to the Lib Dems, and now we need to bring those people over to vote for a right of middle party.
So if you want more of Brown, vote UKIP.
James Morrison Reply:
November 15th, 2009 at 9:44 pm
The point is, it doesn’t matter whether you vote Labour, Tories, or Lib Dems, the end result is the same.
UKIP may end up with more votes than ever and, more than likely, still won’t have enough for a single seat in Westminster, but we are in for 5 more years of the same old same old regardless of who “wins”, so the choice is not voting, voting an independent (if one stands in my area) or voting UKIP.
Oh, you are entitled to your opinion of course, but I think you’re wrong about never electing a “strong right wing party” – if by “strong right wing”, you mean strong conservative.
I think the majority of Brits are a conservative bunch, and anyone who shows even a modicum of strength in opposition will win a landslide in a future election.
The blue side of the house have been pretty pathetic for as long as I can remember.
Freddy Reply:
November 16th, 2009 at 4:39 pm
” …and as much as you do not like it, the party that wins the the middle ground will win the election.”
Wee-e-e-eell, that always used to be true, when we were basically a two party state, and elections were determined by which way the relatively small number of marginal constituencies went.
But those times are changing. I wonder if next year’s election – or maybe the one after – will be decided by whether Labout loses more of its core vote to the BNP than the Tories lose their core vote to UKIP.
John Reply:
November 16th, 2009 at 7:37 pm
The BNP or UKIP will not win a seat in the next election. Well UKIP could well win the speakers seat.
Labour will change its leader and move more to the left, which will bring back some that left for the BNP.
Cameron will fight the controls that the EU has over our laws, and this will bring back a number of those that will vote UKIP in this next election.
I feel that if we do not win this election the Labour and Lib Dems will bring in PR, and we all know the problems that this would bring.
So please think before you vote.
I think you are right to be cautious about the outcome of the next election. It will be easy to underestimate how well NuLabour have engineered the spread of the “Welfarisation” virus. The infected “client state”, created by this virus, is much bigger than most realise; it has not been confined solely to the under-class. The efficacy of this policy was identified in the Glasgow NE by-election.
The “Springburn Dependency” showed us all the result that can be expected in dozens of similar constituencies throughout the nation. A turn-out of 33% in a rock solid Labour area. A lot of the red or dead; always vote Labour, stayed in the pubs and crack houses. Springburn like constituencies can swing an election for Labour, and Labour know it.
Your post above JR, is from the inside of the party looking out. For those like me; on the outside looking in; no longer in any party but knowing the rules of the game; it looks different. The on-looker sees most of the game, as they say. You have one hell of a task in front of you, I wish you luck, but, I am not sure you have the “playmakers” for the task. I am still “holding out for a hero”, as Bonnie Tyler sang.
Solving the debt and deficit crisis will be relatively easy compared to solving the welfare dependency crisis. Most voters will not have a clue about the former but the latter hits them directly in their pockets. Labour knows this well; that’s the way they designed their Client State. Next step, the one party state.
“Social protection” is guessed at £224,000,000,000 for fiscal 2010 (COFOG basis). That is 34% of government spending. See following link.
http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/uk_cofog_budget.html#ukgs302
I wonder if the election is simply going to bring us the same old trough but a new herd of pigs.
I simply do not trust David Cameron. He has been leader now for some 3 years or so but we still do not know where he stands on many things. He hasn’t told us because I suspect he thinks we the public can be manipulated. He doesn’t trust us so why on earth should we trust him.
Look for example at the Stroud result in the last election. Labour’s candidate was returned because the UKIP candidate took so many core votes from the Tory. Scotland and the North are already lost to Labour’s benefit serfs. UKIP will ensure Brown hangs on in the south.
The best hope for UK is for the IMF to come to London with another diktat because whatever the mood of the party John I have much less confidence in that of the leader.
Finally on a personal note the notion that our |(adjective left out ed) Tory
treasury spokesman will become chancellor whist Redwood occupies some peripheral responsibility is both risible and tragic.
Michael Taylor Reply:
November 16th, 2009 at 3:13 pm
Risible, tragic, and deeply irresponsible.
The vast majority of voters are not members of political parties, so deference is likely to be the mood at such gatherings. I give you my eleven mainfesto points for a convincing Conservative victory :
1. In/out EU referendum
2. Quinquennial clause of the 1911 Parliament Act changed to quadrennial clause of the 2011 Parliament Act.
3. No PM can serve longer than 3 months without a general election.
4. 25% reduction in MP numbers with Scotland numbers reduced 50%.
5. Parliament to work at least 42 weeks p.a. and the Lords to become 100 seat elected Senate – no sinecures for life.
6. 80% of police constables’ time to be spent on walking or cycling beats.
7. Moratorium on all permanent immigration for a parliament.
8. Flat income tax
9.Welfare for the needy and truly disabled, vouchers for the
rest.
10. All schools to be self governing.
11. NHS to be “Bupaised”.
There is always the option for the parents of going on another tour of duty abroad and letting the present incumbents face the consequences of their actions. The local Council will eventually turf the children out anyway, for not paying their Council tax.
Like many other contributors here, were an election held today I would transfer from Conservative to UKIP. Happening en masse, the worst result would be that Labour recover power on a slim majority, try to grapple with the consequences of their actions, and are turfed out on a vote of no confidence within 12 months. A better result would be that UKIP gains sufficient power within a Tory-lead UKIP-Con-Unionist coalition to ensure direct democracy and an in-out vote on the EU, after which a core Right Government takes power and real recovery begins. I view either of these as better than a poorly led Tory administration struggling on as Blu Labour.
With all the money gone my hope for a Conservative administration would be to be a reforming government. They don’t have the money to splash so I hope they reform as many areas as they can. From food waste to the Strategic Industrial Policy.
Thank you very much for taking us – as you often do – into the heart of the political system where people like me don’t usually go.
Good: the British are at our best with our backs to the wall.
Tony Blair got us all excited and everyone, but everyone, joined in the adulation. Then he lied to us and cheated us and used his position for his own personal advantage – as he still is. No wonder we are all a bit miffed and, yes, distrustful.
Add in the Lord Levy scandal, the strange death of Dr Kelly and the current expenses fiasco and – bingo! – your analogy of the trashed house comes true, even without the debt (Is Polly Toynbee a Debt Denier? Should she be (questioned-ed)?).
I am not sure that David Cameron and his team aren’t just behaving like gentlemen which, of course, is what they are. He does (to me) have a presence and he does seem determined in a kind of Etonian Way.
Why I shall definitely be voting Conservative (in a safe seat with a clean, retiring MP and a new one chosen by Primary) is for the Michael Gove education policy.
Freddy Reply:
November 16th, 2009 at 4:47 pm
“Tony Blair got us all excited and everyone, but everyone, joined in the adulation.”
I bloody didn’t.
alan jutson Reply:
November 17th, 2009 at 11:50 am
Freddy
Neither did I.
It all sounded too good to be true.
It’s not in the bag yet that’s for sure. My opinion of Cameron and Osborne is that they are a pair of chancers. Cameron is in the grip of hardline anti European Tories and it seems other nutcases. Osbourne’s grasp grasp of the economy is simple and opportunist who will bend to the demands of the City to do nothing allowing them to form the next bubble and of course payday.
I also notice the Nick Griffen of the BNP is going to stand for election in barking.
Can the Conservative party not see that because they are seen on the left by many people it is allowing the BNP to make ground. The Conservatives must shift to the right before its too late. The more Cameron does rather than say the more he is putting off many in his party.
The open primary for example is a con if all the candidates are put forward by central office. What Cameron is trying to do is what Blair did and that is to have more Mps totaly loyal to the leader, so he can just do what he wants. We have had enough of dictators.
Bazman Reply:
November 17th, 2009 at 10:24 am
BNP standing for election in Barking. You couldn’t make it up.
This is a tired government, creating things to do, without any purpose or direction. It is absolutely clear that they can be eradicated by any competent team with a vision and a coherent set of policies. However, that’s just what we lack from the Conservatives right now. We need radical policies that will help the poor and the middle classes, that do not seek to disadvantage one group by claiming the improvement of another. We need to see policies that do not strike at the rich for no other reason than that they are rich, and which ensure that the poor do not remain poor because of handouts from the rest. All of this is what we expect from Conservatives: low tax, small government, care for the individual, freedom for all. However, we are not getting this.
Ultimately, Gordon Brown is an honourable man. He was convinced, as Chancellor and Prime Minister, that properly funded public services would excel. Unfortunately, they did not, and it seems he was wrong. With that core concept undermined, Mr Brown has nowhere to go. No new big idea. No quick solution. The time has come for a new idea, a new vision, a new set of concepts. So far, David Cameron has failed to deliver anything much beyond platitudes.
We still need to find a way to protect the vulnerable without creating a huge and unlimited state. We need a world of fairness, where endeavour is rewarded and hardship is eased. The conservatives had a clear idea how this would work, and they need to recreate and reaffirm this. Cameron is failing not because he is a Conservative, but because he is not Conservative enough.
Can any of you show me one poll that shows that the UK is ready for a UKIP type party?
In the coming election I expect that UKIP will only get about 5% of the votes, and if as some of you think that people are looking for a right wing party (like UKIP) that it is not leading in any one poll?
Cameron is getting it right, and 40+% agree with him.
I feel 99% of us will agree with Boris on this.
The Mayor of London is at his best in The Telegraph this morning, pouring scorn on Gordon Brown’s “utterly tragic” 50p tax hike:
Boris lists some of the wealth creators leaving Britain, partly because of the 50p tax band.
He sees it as a reversal of the Thatcherite reforms that made London a world capital for law, finance, advertising and other service industries.
He notes that Britain’s top rate of tax will be higher than our major competitors and up to 25,000 top earners may flee Britain as a result… or never bring their ingenuity to these shores.
And for what? Avoidance and the brain drain may mean less revenue is collected from the new tax band.
It’s all political, the Mayor of London concludes, and amounts to a desperate attempt to prop up Labour’s bloated state:
“This Government has spectacularly mismanaged the public finances. It has overseen an explosion in the wage bill of the state, to the point where the average public-sector worker now earns £74 more per week than a private-sector employee, as well as having much better pension and other entitlements.”
THIS IS THE POINT I WISH YOU UKIP WOULD GET.
George Osborne and David Cameron are not prepared to make these arguments although I suspect they don’t fundamentally dissent. This side of the election they are not going to let Labour paint them as the friends of the very rich and – on a related front – bankers. Those of us who believe in simpler, lower taxes will have to be patient. Lower and simpler corporate taxation is likely to be a major feature of George Osborne’s first few budgets.
http://conservativehome.blogs.com/thetorydiary/2009/11/boris-blasts-browns-economically-illiterate-50p-tax-band-as-he-gears-up-to-paint-himself-as-a-very-i.html
Quite frankly the thought of voting for UKIP with Nigel Farage and his merry band of sycophants makes me feel decidedly sick!
What on earth do your contributors believe that doing so will achieve? More than probably if enough of them do so, 5 more years of Gordon Brown and Co.
Come on! Heave yourselves out of yesterday’s generation, wake up and smell the coffee! The world has changed, the U.K no longer holds sway on the world’s platform of power but as a big player in Europe we can still both contribute and benefit.
David Cameron was not the one who snuck through the back door and signed the Lisbon Treaty, he promised a referendum should it not have been ratified which i believe that he would have fulfilled. His decision to take the party out of the EPP was poor and has damaged his party’s reputation with the major centre right players in Europe. We are better placed in Europe than out of it, plain and simple.
A divided Conservative Party is not fit to govern this country in the forthcoming difficult times. So to all you UkIP voters, please go and don’t come back!
radsatser Reply:
November 16th, 2009 at 5:46 pm
We have gone, but you Cameron loyalists keep escaping from Conhome to find us it would seem, further convincing us we were right to go in the first place. Let me spell it out for you, most of us are conservatives, note the small ‘c’ , unlike party loyalists like yourself we put principal before party, we have not left the party, the party has left us and the rest of the British people.
Rather than offering a conservative alternative, David Cameron has prostituted himself on the altar of the ‘middle ground’, grovelling about in that fetid swamp of broken promises and empty rhetoric with his Labour and Liberal Democrat friends, not forgetting his other friends in the UAF.
No vote is ever wasted, whether UKIP, BNP, English Democrat etc. It is the BNP who have forced Gordon Brown to make his statement on immigration, it was UKIP who forced the referendum promises from all three parties, and it will be UKIP, BNP, English Democrats and others who will force the agenda to return this country to self government. It may take 5 years or 10 years, but at every election their support will grow a little more, until they will probably coalesce into a single party offering a true alternative to the lazy and treacherous middle ground politics that have turned this country into the basket case it is.
I have no doubt when that day happens there will be a slithering sound rising to a crescendo, as many of the weak and compliant party loyalists seeing the writing on the wall, abandon their former heroes and profess undying loyalty to the new politics. When that day comes it will be those who put their heads above the parapet in the General Election of 2010, by refusing to vote for the discredited parties that will have started the journey, and I hope to have the opportunity to be one of them.
In the meantime haven’t you got anything better to do than try to preach to the converted, shouldn’t you be preparing for government, or whatever it is that party loyalists do when they aren’t singing their own praises.
Reply: It has been Eurosceptic Conservatives in the Commons who kept up the pressure against the Euro, against Lisbon and in favour of negotiaiting powers back. You need numbers in the Commons. UKIP has none.
True_Blue Reply:
November 17th, 2009 at 8:45 am
I do sincerely hope to have left the country on the day that UKIP, BNP and the English Democrats “force the agenda to return this country to self government”. I can think of no greater nightmare scenario than Farage, Griffin et al crowing at the gates of Westminster. Be very careful what you wish for!
I am truely glad that i will never put a mark in the same box as yourself and certainly do not count myself as a “weak and compliant party loyalist” but someone who treasures the benefits of a diverse society and understands that globalisation has changed the way that the world must operate. Nationalists such as yourself will be marginalised and doubtless even more vocal but still powerless.
radsatser Reply:
November 17th, 2009 at 8:46 am
For all I despise all he stands for, it was Gordon Brown who stopped us going into the Euro. If your memory is long enough. It was party loyalists who supported the decision by John Major to join the ERM, and we all know where that took us.
With all due respect I would doubt that David Cameron takes anymore notice of his backbechers, than Gordon Brown does. David Cameron’s position on Europe is a response to the UKIP tendency in the membership and in the wider voter base, and how they may impact on his electoral prospects.
The UKIP tendency are an unknown quantity and therefore dangerous. The new batch of supposedly Eurosceptic PPC’s were exposed at conference as just another bunch of chinless wonders. When asked legitimate questions by journalists, they ran away to find somewhere to hide, rather than answer questions on Lisbon under instructions from the leadership.
I concur with many of the above comments which doubt whether a “conservative” administration will be able to carry out what is required. Certainly the economy needs sorting out, we cannot as a nation keep on spending as we are. Within those constraints we need to get a grasp on what government should do and how can it deal with the EU, despite Cameron’s poo pooing of Europe, which is not the problem, the EU is not going to go away. It costs us huge sums of money that we do not have both directly and indirectly in regulation on our businesses. These sums of money are not paid by government or business, they are paid by the taxpayer in the first case and by the customer in the second. This has to stop.
From December 1st, the Lisbon Treaty/Constitution becomes law, we are then under foreign rule and the “prime minister” as a member of the Council of Europe will be expected to promote the EU at the expense of his own Country, well, our Country really. If Cameron gets the job, will he challenge this, I suspect not, he will go along with every damaging scheme they come up with, global warming, carbon capture, not shooting pirates and so on. Whither then?????
Very well put but “The arithmetic of the Conservative Party” is just as important. A poll of the current crop of Conservative MPs suggests that 5% want us to leave the EU, 85% favour some sort of renegotiation and 10% are pro-Federal. It’s the 10% that worries me. If this proportion is maintained, then we need in excess of 361 Conservative members for the new Commons to have a Eurosceptic majority, which alone will ensure that we can renegotiate effectively and bring about a realignment on the right. I think that if we have the right renegotiating stance – a two ring Europe with the outer ring reverting to the Single European Act situation (no Maastricht, Amersterdam, Nice or Lisbon) – we can pick up a lot of UKIP supporters.
Lindsay,
There is no chance of re-negotiation, France, Germany, Italy and Spain would in any case block any such idea. After the 1st of December there is NO re-negotiation possible, the Constitution/Lisbon Treaty will be law and that will be that.
The EU is doing what it was designed to do, create a single state ruled by beaurocrats, with a fig leaf in the shape of the toy parliament. It was intended that it should be done by stealth and deceit, it worked, you fell for it, but we will all have to pay. Oh yes, those on the gravy train will be OK of course.
Lindsay McDougall Reply:
November 18th, 2009 at 2:41 am
Derek: What a Jeremiah you are. Lots of things are possible if we get a big enough Conservative majority, so big that there is an overall Eurosceptic majority. That nice Mr Cameron will acquire the necessary backbone because he knows what will happen to his leadership if he doesn’t. We will line up allies among the non-euro nations, draw up a joint negotiating position and be prepared to wreck the entire EU from the inside if we are not taken seriously.
There is no reason why France, Germany, Italy and Spain would not accept a two ring Europe, as long as we don’t try to prevent them from forming their Federation. They have proposed it in the past. By the way, that Federation might be fairly unstable in the long term. I can’t imagine the Germans, Italians and Greeks sharing common monetary and fiscal policies indefinitely. As for the ‘third’ force, the glorious European Army, in what language are the orders to be given? Perhaps we should call the European federation the Power of Babel.
Derek W. Buxton Reply:
November 18th, 2009 at 10:22 am
No, I am a realist. I see no chance of Cameron standing up to the EU, and Hague seems to confirm that with his last witterings on the subject. I do not believe that there are enough in his party who are strong enough to stand up to him and call him out. He is too far into all that the EU wants, climate change, protectionism, and is apparently happy that he can, he hopes, become “prime minister”—lower case deliberately. If he does he will become a member of the European Council, an MEC, and as such will be expected to press forward the aims of the EU, not our Country. That is fact.
I do agree that the whole thing could fall apart, too much disparity. A European army is a joke, the continentals have not been good at warfare for a long time.
I hope that I am wrong but I notice that more comments on this and other blogs are leaning the same way.
Derek
Several contributers have queried what purpose a vote for UKIP would achieve on the basis they are unlikely to win a single seat. This is true but misses the point. If 10% of the electorate, most of whom are natural conservatives, chose UKIP/Eng Dems they can deliver a hung parliament. We must be very close to that sort of level now.
That might leave Brown as PM supported by the Lib-Dems. I can’t stand that man and what his party has done to this country, but on the basis that most of those voters would otherwise have voted Conservative it is clear that the Conservatives would have to offer a referendum to stand any chance of a workable majority next time round. These are basically single issue parties, so there would be no ambiguity in the post-election analysis. Every vote for a smaller party counts and they will not need a single MP in Parliament to achieve this. That’s real voter power.
After DC’s abject surrender over Europe it’s the only choice. And to those that say Labour out at any cost, I’m sorry but our collective freedom to govern ourselves is more important.
On a related point, can anyone tell me why offering an in/out referendum is so bad? I would return to the fold, even if the Conservative party said it would take a neutral campaining stance in the run up to the vote. All we are talking about is letting the people decide. While I would be disappointed if the result was a majority who wished to be run by unelected commissars in Europe, I would (reluctantly) accept that verdict and the issue would be lanced for at least a generation.