Comments on: The Mori poll http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/11/23/the-mori-poll/ Conservative Party Candidate for Wokingham Thu, 18 Mar 2010 19:13:21 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Andrew Grainger http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/11/23/the-mori-poll/#comment-50634 Andrew Grainger Fri, 04 Dec 2009 00:44:37 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=5005#comment-50634 I totally agree. Look, I dislike many things about the great EU juggernaut, but for God's sake don't let that make you vote for an egotistical crank like Nigel Farage and let the Seudo Socialist control freak Blair Brown project back in to misgovern us for 5 more drifting, deluded, pie in the sky, idealistically led, state control years. Vote where it will count. Vote for a change to this nonsense. VOTE CONSERVATIVE NOT UKIP!!!!! I totally agree. Look, I dislike many things about the great EU juggernaut, but for God’s sake don’t let that make you vote for an egotistical crank like Nigel Farage and let the Seudo Socialist control freak Blair Brown project back in to misgovern us for 5 more drifting, deluded, pie in the sky, idealistically led, state control years. Vote where it will count. Vote for a change to this nonsense. VOTE CONSERVATIVE NOT UKIP!!!!!

]]> By: Stuart Fairney http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/11/23/the-mori-poll/#comment-49990 Stuart Fairney Thu, 26 Nov 2009 07:32:37 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=5005#comment-49990 This cannot be true. Supporters wish to portray this as a fait accompli, but it is a fundamental principle that past House of Commons decisions cannot bind future ones, ergo, we could simply vote to withdraw from the treaty on the basis it's ratification in Britain was unlawful insofar as the promised referendum was not delivered. What do you imagine the EU could realistically do? Their big scary sanctions are empty threats to a large member country. This is how the Italians and French simply ignore aspects of the EU they find bothersome. And anyway, would it not give the negotiators more moral weight if they were backed by a clear mandate from the people accordingly? It would also be a healthy wake-up call to the bureaucrats that in a metaphorical sense anyway, the 'people were at the gates' and the days of decadence were truly over. What is truly futile is saying we will try to renegotiate but then go into the room naked as without the mandate the item wouldn't even make the agenda. This cannot be true. Supporters wish to portray this as a fait accompli, but it is a fundamental principle that past House of Commons decisions cannot bind future ones, ergo, we could simply vote to withdraw from the treaty on the basis it’s ratification in Britain was unlawful insofar as the promised referendum was not delivered. What do you imagine the EU could realistically do? Their big scary sanctions are empty threats to a large member country. This is how the Italians and French simply ignore aspects of the EU they find bothersome.

And anyway, would it not give the negotiators more moral weight if they were backed by a clear mandate from the people accordingly? It would also be a healthy wake-up call to the bureaucrats that in a metaphorical sense anyway, the ‘people were at the gates’ and the days of decadence were truly over.

What is truly futile is saying we will try to renegotiate but then go into the room naked as without the mandate the item wouldn’t even make the agenda.

]]> By: Richard http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/11/23/the-mori-poll/#comment-49932 Richard Wed, 25 Nov 2009 17:14:19 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=5005#comment-49932 Not true. the UK is now a signatory to a treaty, like it or not. There are 2 choices: attempt to renegotiate as best we can or leave the EU. Pushing for a futile referendum on a treaty already ratified will get us nowhere. Not true. the UK is now a signatory to a treaty, like it or not. There are 2 choices: attempt to renegotiate as best we can or leave the EU. Pushing for a futile referendum on a treaty already ratified will get us nowhere.

]]> By: Andrew Duffin http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/11/23/the-mori-poll/#comment-49860 Andrew Duffin Wed, 25 Nov 2009 09:13:15 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=5005#comment-49860 I don't expect them to listen to UKIP. I do expect them to listen to voters. And if the only way to get them listen is to vote for someone else, then that is what I will do. I don’t expect them to listen to UKIP.

I do expect them to listen to voters.

And if the only way to get them listen is to vote for someone else, then that is what I will do.

]]> By: JimF http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/11/23/the-mori-poll/#comment-49843 JimF Tue, 24 Nov 2009 22:36:07 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=5005#comment-49843 Again, we are being given the choice to vote with deep reservations for Big Party1 or Big Party2, or to vote according to our conscience. I think continuing democracy requires the latter in the long run. Again, we are being given the choice to vote with deep reservations for Big Party1 or Big Party2, or to vote according to our conscience. I think continuing democracy requires the latter in the long run.

]]> By: JimF http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/11/23/the-mori-poll/#comment-49841 JimF Tue, 24 Nov 2009 22:19:19 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=5005#comment-49841 The Tories will listen to UKIP because they will have lost votes to them. They will not by and large have lost votes to the Greens or LibDems. The Tories will listen to UKIP because they will have lost votes to them. They will not by and large have lost votes to the Greens or LibDems.

]]> By: Brigham http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/11/23/the-mori-poll/#comment-49834 Brigham Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:37:03 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=5005#comment-49834 Yes it does seem as if once somebody gets onto the front bench(shadow or government) they appear to be following a "hidden agenda" I don't suppose we shall ever know the ins and outs of it. It is for important people not us "plebs" Yes it does seem as if once somebody gets onto the front bench(shadow or government) they appear to be following a “hidden agenda” I don’t suppose we shall ever know the ins and outs of it. It is for important people not us “plebs”

]]> By: Stuart Fairney http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/11/23/the-mori-poll/#comment-49829 Stuart Fairney Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:40:38 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=5005#comment-49829 True enough, but the House of Commons retains the right to withdraw from treaty obligations by majority vote, ergo this is not final. The House of Commons makes laws and it can un-make them. To believe otherwise is to believe the spin. The power is ours, don't be deceived otherwise. In addition, would it not give Mr Cameron enormous negotiating leverage? True enough, but the House of Commons retains the right to withdraw from treaty obligations by majority vote, ergo this is not final. The House of Commons makes laws and it can un-make them. To believe otherwise is to believe the spin. The power is ours, don’t be deceived otherwise.

In addition, would it not give Mr Cameron enormous negotiating leverage?

]]> By: Ross J Warren http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/11/23/the-mori-poll/#comment-49827 Ross J Warren Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:18:22 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=5005#comment-49827 So, UKIP are wrong and you are right? Well of course we believe that to be true. UKIP seem to support a self destructive Non-negotiated withdraw from the E.U. I would not dignify such a narrow minded or wrong idea with the word policy. “The Tories would do well to spend any further time after the next election, if still in opposition, to seriously dwell on this.” This is rather typical of the kind of emotional blackmail that UKIP always seem to stoop to. David Cameron, would be a very weak leader indeed, to give way on this issue. UKIP might like to pick their leader without imploding if they can. So, UKIP are wrong and you are right?

Well of course we believe that to be true. UKIP seem to support a self destructive Non-negotiated withdraw from the E.U. I would not dignify such a narrow minded or wrong idea with the word policy.

“The Tories would do well to spend any further time after the next election, if still in opposition, to seriously dwell on this.”

This is rather typical of the kind of emotional blackmail that UKIP always seem to stoop to. David Cameron, would be a very weak leader indeed, to give way on this issue. UKIP might like to pick their leader without imploding if they can.

]]> By: APL http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/11/23/the-mori-poll/#comment-49825 APL Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:01:01 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=5005#comment-49825 Acorn: "The Producers of these programmes are experts at manipulating situations to their advantage." Acorn, that worked out well for the Tories with their advertising executive chief executive didn't it? Acorn: “The Producers of these programmes are experts at manipulating situations to their advantage.”

Acorn, that worked out well for the Tories with their advertising executive chief executive didn’t it?

]]> By: APL http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/11/23/the-mori-poll/#comment-49823 APL Tue, 24 Nov 2009 16:53:24 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=5005#comment-49823 Kevin Peat: "Pardon? It’s the other way around, actually." Exactly. Mr Redwood is always eager to tell us how the voting population has got it wrong on this or that issue and should adopt the policy put forward by the Tory party. The truth is as you say, it should be the other way round. The Tory party policy should reflect the opinions of its members ... But of course it can't in the first instance because policy, such as it is, is formulated in CCO and handed down on tablets of, I was going to say Stone but I think Cast Pig iron would be more accurate. The promises and policy are thus brittle and shatter or are disguarded at a moments notice. In the second reason is because being in the European Union means the Tory Party must take it policy intitiative from Brussels. Kevin Peat: “Pardon? It’s the other way around, actually.”

Exactly. Mr Redwood is always eager to tell us how the voting population has got it wrong on this or that issue and should adopt the policy put forward by the Tory party.

The truth is as you say, it should be the other way round. The Tory party policy should reflect the opinions of its members …

But of course it can’t in the first instance because policy, such as it is, is formulated in CCO and handed down on tablets of, I was going to say Stone but I think Cast Pig iron would be more accurate.

The promises and policy are thus brittle and shatter or are disguarded at a moments notice.

In the second reason is because being in the European Union means the Tory Party must take it policy intitiative from Brussels.

]]> By: Simon http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/11/23/the-mori-poll/#comment-49801 Simon Tue, 24 Nov 2009 09:39:24 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=5005#comment-49801 Your post is a good illustration of the reality of EU membership. "The powers in Brussels might at once start making life difficult for Britain economically". Precisely, they will blackmail us, especially with the sort of party leaders we have at the moment who display nothing but timidity in the face of EU demands for ever more power. Your post is a good illustration of the reality of EU membership. “The powers in Brussels might at once start making life difficult for Britain economically”. Precisely, they will blackmail us, especially with the sort of party leaders we have at the moment who display nothing but timidity in the face of EU demands for ever more power.

]]> By: waramess http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/11/23/the-mori-poll/#comment-49800 waramess Tue, 24 Nov 2009 09:36:46 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=5005#comment-49800 So, UKIP are wrong and you are right? UKIP will benefit from Tory supporters' dissatisfaction and not from support for their own policies. The Tories would do well to spend any further time after the next election, if still in opposition, to seriously dwell on this. So, UKIP are wrong and you are right?

UKIP will benefit from Tory supporters’ dissatisfaction and not from support for their own policies.

The Tories would do well to spend any further time after the next election, if still in opposition, to seriously dwell on this.

]]> By: Richard http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/11/23/the-mori-poll/#comment-49795 Richard Tue, 24 Nov 2009 09:19:36 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=5005#comment-49795 A vote for UKIP is a vote to keep Gordon Brown in office. UKIP is a single issue pressure group. like the greens and the BNP - it attributes all the problems of the UK to membership of the EU & says the solution to all problems is withdrawal. Its not a serious political party - don't waste your vote. A vote for UKIP is a vote to keep Gordon Brown in office. UKIP is a single issue pressure group. like the greens and the BNP – it attributes all the problems of the UK to membership of the EU & says the solution to all problems is withdrawal. Its not a serious political party – don’t waste your vote.

]]> By: Richard http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/11/23/the-mori-poll/#comment-49794 Richard Tue, 24 Nov 2009 09:15:38 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=5005#comment-49794 A referendum on the Lisbon treaty would be a pointless gesture, its already law, and the law won't be unmade by a 'No' vote. A referendum on the Lisbon treaty would be a pointless gesture, its already law, and the law won’t be unmade by a ‘No’ vote.

]]> By: Mark Parker http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/11/23/the-mori-poll/#comment-49787 Mark Parker Tue, 24 Nov 2009 08:42:24 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=5005#comment-49787 Indeed, I am one of those who posted saying he intended to vote non-conservative. However my post has not been "approved" and you can't see it. (I can still see it up there near the top.) I justify using Mr Redwood's website for this "betrayal" by baldly stating what it would take for the Conservatives to get my vote back; in my case - better pandering to my Euroscepticsm and dealing with the immigration issue. Politicians need to be told how people are thinking, really thinking, as opposed to having their opinions distorted by the prism of the politically correct mass media. Some of the media are beginning to "get it", the Daily Mail especially, but the rest are trying to pretend it's business as usual. Indeed, I am one of those who posted saying he intended to vote non-conservative. However my post has not been “approved” and you can’t see it. (I can still see it up there near the top.)

I justify using Mr Redwood’s website for this “betrayal” by baldly stating what it would take for the Conservatives to get my vote back; in my case – better pandering to my Euroscepticsm and dealing with the immigration issue.

Politicians need to be told how people are thinking, really thinking, as opposed to having their opinions distorted by the prism of the politically correct mass media.

Some of the media are beginning to “get it”, the Daily Mail especially, but the rest are trying to pretend it’s business as usual.

]]> By: Fox in sox http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/11/23/the-mori-poll/#comment-49781 Fox in sox Tue, 24 Nov 2009 07:35:45 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=5005#comment-49781 I think that there will be plenty of poll swings yet, that will focus minds. The Lisbon treaty vote was denied by mr Brown not mr Cameron, and this should be pointed out whenever the labour spin machine raises it. Those wanting a referendum on Europe may want to vote lib dem, if they can stomach their other daft policies. My vote is yet undecided, but in a safe Tory seat, so probably only useful as a protest or an enormous majority. I am very anti our MP who is a waste of space and personally very arrogant, having met him a few too many times. I think a hung parliament or minority labour govt would cause such a run on the pound that the IMF would be called in in weeks. This may be the only way to sort out the finances when the Tories are so hesitent about cuts in the campaign period. I would rather a Tory government that had a real plan to get the defecit down. You don't create growth with govt spending, just inefficiently redistribute it. I think that there will be plenty of poll swings yet, that will focus minds. The Lisbon treaty vote was denied by mr Brown not mr Cameron, and this should be pointed out whenever the labour spin machine raises it. Those wanting a referendum on Europe may want to vote lib dem, if they can stomach their other daft policies.

My vote is yet undecided, but in a safe Tory seat, so probably only useful as a protest or an enormous majority. I am very anti our MP who is a waste of space and personally very arrogant, having met him a few too many times.

I think a hung parliament or minority labour govt would cause such a run on the pound that the IMF would be called in in weeks. This may be the only way to sort out the finances when the Tories are so hesitent about cuts in the campaign period. I would rather a Tory government that had a real plan to get the defecit down. You don’t create growth with govt spending, just inefficiently redistribute it.

]]> By: no one http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/11/23/the-mori-poll/#comment-49779 no one Tue, 24 Nov 2009 00:37:27 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=5005#comment-49779 i think you forget that in England the Conservatives are much further ahead forget worrying about Europe and worry about Scotland and their MP's dictating to England where are the sensible politicians standing up for the English and the inequity of the Scottish having their own parliament, the Welsh and Irish doing very nicely, and the English being governed by Scots? even if the Conservatives lost big time in an election are currently planned they are likely to win significantly in England, and England should be run accordingly thats what real democracy demands i think you forget that in England the Conservatives are much further ahead

forget worrying about Europe and worry about Scotland and their MP’s dictating to England

where are the sensible politicians standing up for the English and the inequity of the Scottish having their own parliament, the Welsh and Irish doing very nicely, and the English being governed by Scots?

even if the Conservatives lost big time in an election are currently planned they are likely to win significantly in England, and England should be run accordingly

thats what real democracy demands

]]> By: Mike Paterson http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/11/23/the-mori-poll/#comment-49778 Mike Paterson Tue, 24 Nov 2009 00:24:06 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=5005#comment-49778 Because most UKIP voters are Tories, that's why! Really! Why not add Labour to your list? They're more numerous than UKIP too. That really is a poor reply, JR. Because most UKIP voters are Tories, that’s why! Really! Why not add Labour to your list? They’re more numerous than UKIP too. That really is a poor reply, JR.

]]> By: ManicBeancounter http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2009/11/23/the-mori-poll/#comment-49776 ManicBeancounter Mon, 23 Nov 2009 22:31:59 +0000 http://www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/?p=5005#comment-49776 Political Betting has some insightful tips that may help. 1. First this is either a rogue poll, or a temporary blip on the back of a significant win in the Glasgow by-election. (The poll being taken a few days before its publication. The Guardian poll published the same day had a much greater lead. http://politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2009/11/21/has-labour-got-by-election-poll-boost-from-mori/ 2. The Guardian poll published on Tuesday, but on polls taken on the same day had a much greater lead. http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2009/11/22/two-polls-same-timing-different-outcomes-eh/ 3. For three general elections, the Conservatives were the party to vote against. Now it is Labour who are more disliked. So the lead in popular poll required for the Conservatives to get an out-right majority in parliament is likely to be less than before. http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2009/11/23/is-alex-right-about-the-system-bias-towards-labour/ 4. The latest poll out tonight has a 17 point lead for the Conservatives. Might be another rogue poll, but evens things up a bit. http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2009/11/23/pb-angus-reid-poll-has-labour-down-to-22pc/ Whilst this may all be true, it is better to avoid complacency than let things slide. The Conservatives will need a huge mandate to tackle the huge problems created by this government. The lowest possible poll is also desirable for the Labour Party to make them relinquish the undemocratic, destructive and evasive style of politics that they are sinking further and further into. Political Betting has some insightful tips that may help.
1. First this is either a rogue poll, or a temporary blip on the back of a significant win in the Glasgow by-election. (The poll being taken a few days before its publication. The Guardian poll published the same day had a much greater lead.
http://politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2009/11/21/has-labour-got-by-election-poll-boost-from-mori/

2. The Guardian poll published on Tuesday, but on polls taken on the same day had a much greater lead.
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2009/11/22/two-polls-same-timing-different-outcomes-eh/

3. For three general elections, the Conservatives were the party to vote against. Now it is Labour who are more disliked. So the lead in popular poll required for the Conservatives to get an out-right majority in parliament is likely to be less than before.
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2009/11/23/is-alex-right-about-the-system-bias-towards-labour/

4. The latest poll out tonight has a 17 point lead for the Conservatives. Might be another rogue poll, but evens things up a bit.
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2009/11/23/pb-angus-reid-poll-has-labour-down-to-22pc/

Whilst this may all be true, it is better to avoid complacency than let things slide. The Conservatives will need a huge mandate to tackle the huge problems created by this government. The lowest possible poll is also desirable for the Labour Party to make them relinquish the undemocratic, destructive and evasive style of politics that they are sinking further and further into.

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